[Deck - CaNG Finalist] I Will Survive

[Isamaru]

I WILL SURVIVE
CaNGD Submission by Stephen Judd

At first I was afraid, I was Putrified…
Kept thinking I could never live without using the same old main and side;
but then I spent so many nights thinking how they did me wrong,
and I grew strong, and learned what cards could get along…

But still you netdeck! …from StarCityGames.
I just walked in to find you here with that sad Tarmogoyf in its place;
I should have changed that stupid card, I should have made you learn to think.
If I’d have known for just one second that you’d insist on cards that stink…

Oh and now I go! – I’ll combo my synergistic cards.
Just gained infinite life now, because you thought I was a retard.
Weren’t you the one who tried to tell me I was living in a lie?
You thought I’d play Crumble. You thought I’d concede and die…

Oh no, not I! I’ll play “I Will Survive”
For as long as I know how to think, I know my decks will thrive.
I’ve got this entire format to build with, I’ve got all the cards within it,
If we stop throwing Brainstorm into every blue deck and think for just one minute…

I’ll play “I Will Survive”…

Table of Contents

• 1.0 Introduction
• 2.0 History and Background
• 3.0 Process of Building the Deck
• 4.0 The Current Decklist
  
  • 4.1 Card Explanations
  • 4.2 Tentative Sideboard Choices
  • 4.3 Possible Card Considerations
• 5.0 General Tips for Playing the Deck
• 6.0 MWS Screenshots: The Deck in Action
• 7.0 Matchup Analysis in progress
• 8.0 Strengths of the Deck, Why Now?
• 9.0 Conclusion

1.0 Introduction

Welcome! The “song” above is trying to explain that one of the main reasons to play this deck is the “rogue” factor, as some call it. Basically, the best reason to play any non-mainstream deck is that the opponent has no idea what cards are in it, what outs you have, what your deck can do, what to sideboard against you, how good (or bad – this could work to your advantage, surprisingly) you are as a player, nor does the opponent have any experience playing against your style of deck, and if you successfully take this into account, then you won’t have the style of any other deck in the first place.

Although some of the submissions using great cards, accepted methods (some with slightly new choices), and “strong” cards might be equally strong or stronger than this deck, if their strategy is recognizable, then they may be at a slight disadvantage without realizing it. I am not trying to insult any submission here, I mean to take a look at the differences in style, and I do not speak of all of the submissions.

Others have taken a similar route to deckbuilding as I have: the idea that using “slightly weak” cards when viewed independently, understanding that the sum of the synergy between two slightly weaker cards is, many times, stronger than an obviously powerful choice.

Oddly, this phenomenon is usually referred to by a special name, even though it theoretically shouldn’t be fundamentally separate in this game. Anyway, this deck is full of interactions that fall into this category. As with anything, approach it with an open mind, and I look forward to any and all thoughtful feedback. Thank you guys!

2.0 History and Background

I know that sometimes these stories are boring, so I’ll try to keep it brief.

For a few years, my friend David Jezusek and my favorite color combinations have been UB and GW. My friend’s project deck is his GW deck, and mine was Vile Horror for the last couple years.

When I first started the game, I played with white in standard, and fell in love with the card Promise of Bunrei. It rotated out of Standard, so I built a Legacy deck a year later with Saffi Eriksdotter, Soul Warden, and some other sacrificial creatures like Sakura Tribe-Edler.

Then they printed Essence Warden, so I added that to the deck. Later, Cloudthresher was printed, so I put that in because of the trick you can play with Evoke and Saffi Eriksdotter. (I also tried Briarhorn )

The deck was pretty slow as an aggro deck, but it was still fun to Saffi a Cloudthresher into play, gaining 6 life from it and the Bunrei tokens… then convoking Chord of Calling to fetch more… etc.

I created a deck with Wizards for the Create-A-New-Good-Deck contest, but it wasn’t doing very well. I tried reviving a few of my older decks: Defense of the Heart, David and my Cleric deck, etc. Each didn’t seem strong enough, and the tribal theme seriously hurt their originality factor in the contest, and Finn, Bladewing, and others I talked to couldn’t think of anything to help the Defense of the Heart deck.

3.0 Process of Building the Deck

If you read this, you won’t have to read the individual card explanation.

I picked up my GW deck again a few weeks ago and wondered what would happen if I put in Loyal Retainers for the infinite-life combo in the style of Type 2’s Crypt Champion, willingly planning to be a bad aggro deck with a combo finish… surprisingly, the combo was faster and more resilient than I thought.

The trick was making Loyal Retainers actually better than… a combo-enabler that was otherwise a weak 1/1 for 3. I simply decided to play cheap Legendary creatures: I put in 3x Gaddock Teeg since I was still wondering if he was as strong as we all thought, and because he didn’t affect any of the other cards in the deck. I also included 2x Isao, Enlightened Bushi because he has very useful abilities, and 1x-2x Iwamori of the Open Fist to help become aggro out a little bit better… The deck started falling together from there: Pendelhaven and Karakas became a natural fit, making Gaddock Teeg suddenly a good bear when his abilities weren’t relevant, and even working well with Saffi Eriskdotter.

In the original deck, I played Chord of Calling, because it was one of David’s favorites (my friend and testing partner), but because of the Gaddock Teegs, I switched to playing 3x Eladamri’s Call, happy that GW had such a powerful creature tutor, and it was almost as good as Chord of Calling.

I then decided to try out Survival of the Fittest, originally because I wanted to offset the fact that I played 4x Saffi Eriksdotter and 4x Loyal Retainers. I figured that having extras in hand (which after playing for a few weeks now I realize doesn’t happen like I thought – they have become too useful) would be the price I had to pay for playing the full amount, hoping to get an early combo. I wanted to cycle them into the lesser-numbered copies of Isao and the other legendary creatures I was playing.

Perhaps because of my relatively little experience with the card, after a few sample hands/games, I realized (as some in this contest are too) just how powerful it is! It became worth it to play the 1x Squee, Goblin Nabob, even if it were sometimes not the most amazing opening hand-inclusion.

After that, Silvos, Rogue Elemental was put into the deck because he was Legendary, yet still not a horrible opening hand draw because of his fair mana-cost. I apparently overlooked the fact that Rec-Sur and Full-English-Breakfast have been taking advantage of the fact that you can send powerful creatures straight to the graveyard for reanimation. I could search for Silvos, and then discard him to search for Loyal Retainers, playing the retainers, and immediately sacrificing them!

I immediately did more searches for Legendary “winning” reanimation targets, and a few came to mind. I rejected Akroma Angel of Wrath, and Reya Dawnbringer, because I knew I’d be sick to my stomach if I drew them in the opening hand (however, Squee is a necessary evil in this way)… The only Legendary creature that isn’t a worthless draw in aggro mode (recall the fact that this deck can/will play a few different roles depending on the draw) is one that had Cycling, Morph, or Evoke… Only Akroma, Angel of Fury could claim this. Protection from Swords to Plowshares and bounce was good enough for her inclusion as a one-of, and the best part is the opponent often thinks you are playing Exalted Angel and will kill the morph creature. Moreover, you can set up a situation where you can chump-block an attacking creature, and save the morph with Saffi Eriksdotter, returning a flipped Akroma.

A win condition was needed: Loaming Shaman seemed to fill the role of also being an aggro creature, and I tried (and sadly later rejected) Commander Eesha (an unblockable 2 a turn, but it didn’t seem strong enough, even with Karakas). While looking at Eesha, I recalled that it was used in Finn’s Death and Taxes, so, while on this train of thought, I might as well use one copy of Mangara of Corondor in the deck because I am also using Karakas and, as a Survival target, it give an out to Worship or Solitary Confinement, etc.

The icing for this cake, however, was provided when David and I went through a Legendary Creature search and found Asmira, Holy Avenger, which was apparently printed for me personally. Kidding, haha... Anyway, I don't normally like the idea of a vulnerable creature trying to win, but as you'll see / read below in the explanation, she isn't the main goal of the deck by any means. She is not how the deck wins, though she is too perfect for the deck not to use at least 1 of her.

4.0 The Current Decklist

As a warning, if you skipped right to this, certain choices or interactions may not be apparent.

Note: This version's Glowrider and Tarmogoyf MB/SB are swappable depending on the metagame.

// Lands (20)
    4 Windswept Heath
    2 Wooded Foothills
    4 Savannah
    5 Forest
    1 Plains
    2 Horizon Canopy
    2 Karakas
// Creatures (31)
The Mana (5)
    3 Birds of Paradise
    1 Llanowar Elves
    1 Fyndhorn Elves

The Combo (13)
    4 Essence Warden
    1 Soul Warden
    4 Saffi Eriksdotter
    4 Loyal Retainers

The Legends (4/8)
    2 Akroma, Angel of Fury
    1 Mangara of Corondor
    1 Squee, Goblin Nabob

The Utility (10)
    4 Glowrider
    4 Eternal Witness
    1 Loaming Shaman
    1 Dust Elemental / Stonecloaker
// Non-Creature Spells (8)
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Survival of the Fittest
// Sideboard (15)
    1 Genesis / Kataki, War's Wage
    3 Krosan Grip
    1 Wispmare

    4 Gaddock Teeg
    2 Tivadar of Thorn
    4 Tarmogoyf

Yixlid Splash "Halfway" Version

// Lands (21)
    4 Windswept Heath
    2 Wooded Foothills
    4 Savannah
    1 Bayou
    5 Forest
    1 Plains
    2 Horizon Canopy
    2 Karakas
// Creatures (31)
The Mana (5)
    3 Birds of Paradise
    1 Llanowar Elves
    1 Fyndhorn Elves

The Combo (13)
    4 Essence Warden
    1 Soul Warden
    4 Saffi Eriksdotter
    4 Loyal Retainers

The Legends (4/8)
    1 Isao, Enlightened Bushi / Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
    1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
    1 Mangara of Corondor
    1 Squee, Goblin Nabob

The Utility (9)
    4 Glowrider
    4 Eternal Witness
    1 Loaming Shaman
// Non-Creature Spells (8)
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Survival of the Fittest
// Sideboard (15)
    3 Krosan Grip
    1 Wispmare

    4 Gaddock Teeg
    4 Yixlid Jailer

    1 Genesis
    2 Tivadar of Thorn

The Original Decklist

This was the starting point of the discussion.

// Lands (19)
    4 Windswept Heath
    1 Wooded Foothills
    4 Forest
    2 Plains
    4 Savannah

    1 Pendelhaven
    2 Karakas
    1 Horizon Canopy
// Creatures (33)
The Mana (7)
    4 Llanowar Elves
    2 Fyndhorn Elves
    1 Birds of Paradise

The Combo (14)
    4 Essence Warden
    2 Soul Warden
    4 Saffi Eriksdotter
    4 Loyal Retainers

The Legends (8)
    3 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Isao, Enlightened Bushi
    1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
    1 Mangara of Corondor
    1 Asmira, Holy Avenger
    1 Akroma, Angel of Fury

The Utility (4)
    2 Cloudthresher
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Loaming Shaman
// Non-Creature Spells (8)
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Survival of the Fittest
// Sideboard (15)
    4 Krosan Grip
    4 Orim's Chant

    1 Iwamori of the Open Fist
    1 Isao, Enlightened Bushi
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Harmonic Sliver
    1 Tivadar of Thorn
    1 Kataki, War's Wage

[Isamaru]

This somehow got deleted... I am in the process of retyping it from scratch, so please be patient.

4.1 Card Explanations

Notice how a lot of decks on forums have Card Explanation sections that list reasons such as “if you’re playing blue, you play this card” or “this card is redonkuluz” etc.? Well, that’s most often an excuse for poor deck-building. Anyone can build a deck after picking a color combination and choosing the “best” cards for it, but it takes effort to take what the best cards for the deck are into consideration, and I am happy to see a lot of this being done more often here recently, on the Source (and it is why I “migrated” here). Anyway, here goes…

4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Bayou
5 Forest
1 Plains
4 Savannah
2 Karakas
2 Horizon Canopy

I chose this mana base because of Magus of the Moon and Wasteland could disrupt it far too much without a basic plains, as Bladewing advised.

Karakas’ ability is (as most know) so powerful, that it’s worth all the nonbasic risks to play it. It oddly even randomly screws opponents that play Isamaru, or other Legendary creatures. It can even hurt opponents playing Death and Taxes using Karakas by acting as land destruction at worst. The 2 Horizon Canopy are a safeguard to prevent getting land flooded.

1 Llanowar Elves
1 Fyndhorn Elves
2 Birds of Paradise
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary

I started with 8 elves, but have gone down to 5 mana creatures now. The small black splash led me to use 2 Birds of Paradise... besides that, they are often a necessary tutor to chump block a flyer. Rofellos usually has a bullseye on his head which can be good for our other creatures, and being a Legend is obviously a plus in this deck.

4 Essence Warden
1 Soul Warden
4 Saffi Eriksdotter
4 Loyal Retainers

I play 5 wardens because they are excellent creatures even without the combo. Max of Saffi and Retainers are because they are especially important to the deck, and Saffi dies often enough that you can play 4.

Gaddock Teeg / Glowrider

The power of cards like this and Meddling Mage is that they add a small clock to a slightly disruptive ability. Anyway, when Gaddock Teeg's ability is not relevant, he is busy being a slightly better blinking (with Karakas) 2/2 for 2.

Glowrider can come down on turn 2 oftentimes, and have at least some effect on the opponent at worst, at medium they hurt control and threshold somewhat, and at best they stop storm combo in its tracks.

Isao, Enlightened Bushi

This card is very helpful – especially for a deck that often wants to stall against an aggro deck. The legendary status is nice with Karakas if regeneration is not enough (opposing Swords to Plowshares, etc.), and of course with Loyal Retainers. He holds off Mongeese and Tarmogoyfs and creatures with Equipment for a long time which would otherwise have to be done with a Witness and a Saffi... Lastly, he can survive a Pernicious Deed.

Squee, Goblin Nabob

Worth being a dead draw sometimes (if you don't have a Birds of Paradise or Survival) to make Survival a large amount better.

Mangara of Corondor

The Karakas combo is old now, but he is in simply as a way to remove pesky enchantments like Solitary Confinement or Worship, etc. He could be sideboarded if additional room was needed.

Akroma, Angel of Fury

As said in the creation of the deck, the importance of her as the fattie-oops-I-win-because-it-wasn’t-safe-to-combo-normally of choice is that she isn’t dead when you want to go aggro. A Gray Ogre doesn’t seem good, but it’s better than a dead card, and Saffi Erriksdotter encourages her to die after being morphed. When going aggro, the opponent almost always seems to think that she is Exalted Angel (because it looks like a white aggro deck), and will spend removal on her almost immediately for fear of her being flipped into Exalted. So, because of Exalted Angel’s existence, and because of Saffi, her life as a morph creature is almost always better than a random Gray Ogre.

Eternal Witness

A very interesting play is double blocking with Eternal Witness and Saffi Erriksdotter, then having Saffi save Witness, and return to return Saffi to your hand. You gain 2*Wardens-in-play every time it happens, or have the option to let Saffi die, returning some other card, perhaps letting a Recruiter bring her back, effectively trading a Recruiter in play for a card in your graveyard during one of these iterations.

Besides this, Eternal Witness saves a countered Loaming Shaman or sometimes secures a land drop. Her inclusion and ability is greatly appreciated, and she often means you can have 8+ Swords to Plowshares.

Loaming Shaman

This, as most people now know, is a random-trump to Ichorid or Loam decks at times, and is in the deck to secure a win if you must decide it based on who will deck out first. It is also a decent aggro creature if you must go aggro this game, and it has once shuffled back all the lands in Landstill’s graveyard to prevent Crucible dominance.

Swords to Plowshares

For a random metagame, Swords to Plowshares is generally a useful card. It removes utility creatures, but its true strength is when it is reused with Eternal Witness.

Survival of the Fittest

I was originally playing 3 because I was playing it without Squee as a casual tutor that I thought might be better than Eladamri’s Call, but 3 is almost never the right number of any card, this included. So, it’s worth the sometimes extra dead copies you’ll draw of it, because it often means you’re winning if you had enough land. And if you didn’t have enough land, then another non-land card that wasn’t Survival wasn’t going to help you anyway.

4.2 Tentative Sideboard Choices

Keep in mind that the sideboard is not fully functional, it is rather a collection of ideas currently, and it would change depending on a metagame, even after being tweaked.

3x Krosan Grip

This can be cast easily enough and is very helpful. It destroys pesky things, even in Landstill, including Crucible and Mishra’s Factory, so it can be brought in while often still not being entirely dead, etc.

1x Wispmare

Wispmare is searcheable with Survival, doges a lot of CMC hate with Counterbalance, Chalice, Trinisphere, etc. Usually Enchantments are more feared than Artifacts. With Saffi out, you can Evoke Wispmare and save it with Saffi to destroy 2 Enchantments.

Gaddock Teeg / Glowrider

The power of cards like this and Meddling Mage is that they add a small clock to a slightly disruptive ability. Anyway, when Gaddock Teeg's ability is not relevant, he is busy being a slightly better blinking (with Karakas) 2/2 for 2.

Glowrider can come down on turn 2 oftentimes, and have at least some effect on the opponent at worst, at medium they hurt control and threshold somewhat, and at best they stop storm combo in its tracks.

4x Yixlid Jailer

He is a nice creature to have against Loam, Ichorid, and others. I think he is worth the small splash, at least for now. He doesn't affect the combo or any part of our deck other than Squee, which would most likely simply be boarded out for the Jailer. Also, you could consider playing 3x Yixlid Jailer 1x Loaming Shaman (extra) as a split.

1x Genesis

I guess Genesis is in the sideboard because he hasn't been that great except vs. control / Landstill. Genesis could be taken out for something more helpful.

2x Tivadar of Thorn

This could be considered if we want to improve the Goblins matchup... I don't think it's too horrible.

4.3 Possible Card Considerations

Tarmogoyf

Yes, he often plays a threatening role of “if you don’t deal with this, you still lose to that” situation, but I wouldn’t want to see room cleared for him mainboard. I have posted a list including him if he suits your style better.

Sensei’s Divining Top

I had this in for a moment, and it fills a niche, but, in the end, I don’t need to have another card that can’t be played under Chalice at 1. It takes up a lot of mana, sometimes. Horizon Canopy was supposed to fulfill the same role: redirecting a flood, be it land or nonland flood.

Sylvan Library

This was suggested by georgjorge, but I am not sure on it yet.

Quirion Ranger

She was good at protecting Savannahs from Wasteland, but in the end, I needed the room.

Aether Vial

I think the deck is better off without it for now.

Asmira, Holy Avenger

Not too expensive, a legendary creature (for Karakas, Retainer), Green-White (our colors), and a respectable 2/3 Flyer? That’s affordable, even in aggro mode. And then adding to the equation that she, like Gleancrawler, looks over the entire turn when her End-of-turn ability triggers (seeing that you combo’d this turn) shows she is a truly a hidden gem that only Legacy deckbuilding can present.

The amazing play is Survival-ing Squee/creature into Asmira into Retainers, then play Loyal Retainers. You perform the combo (set up on earlier turns) with Saffi, and then, on the last iteration, after you have a life total in the trillions, you choose to return Asmira instead of Saffi. She looks over the entire turn, and becomes a very large flying creature.

Like with Teysa in the Saffi + Crypt Champion combo, she can technically replace a Warden in the 3-card combo, but it is always safest to gain the life first, then try to find a win condition (her or Loaming Shaman, etc.)

Still, I wasn’t originally going to play any extra win condition other than Loaming Shaman and Akroma, but I think, unlike Teysa, she is actually somewhat useful and synergistic even if you are not combo-ing. So, keep in mind that she could be taken out of the deck if some other strategy comes up.

Caller of the Claw

sasa_batora suggested this as a replacement to Asmira, but because it is not Legendary, it must be hardcast after the combo (you often wont have the mana), and it is often useless if the opponent is not playing Pernicious Deed. I am not 100% sure on this yet, but I think that we aren't too worried about mass removal, and if we are, we should be sideboarding something to address it indirectly like mana disruption.

Iwamori of the Open Fist

He is a strong aggro creature, but I am under the impression that Isao is better in general because we will be in the defensive position many times.

Cloudthresher

As mentioned before, it combos with Saffi Eriksdotter at worst, other time it pitches to Survival for being a bit too expensive, but any higher than 6 mana would be hard to reach in this deck. Options are why this card is especially good, and the Reach sometimes matters. The flash is most likely the best part, because it allows you to surprise block a creature (Tarmogoyf) and then untap and attack for 7. This card was disgustingly pushed at 6 mana, and I may as well take advantage of Wizard’s random decision to push this block. This card isn’t supportive to the combo, but it has no drawback (unless you have Bird of Paradise out), and can win a game if you have nothing else or are losing.

Silvos, Rogue Elemental

He was in the deck for a week or so, but he is a bit expensive. I found myself getting Akroma more often. Still, he is quite powerful, and can push a game through a board stall better than Cloudthresher by far because of the regeneration.

Rhox

Bladewing suggested this. He is an unblockable 5/5 after a fashion, but he is quite expensive and is definitely not Legendary.

Brion Stoutarm

I originally considered him as a way to win after comboing without attacking, but it still involves a creature staying in play, and in the end, Loaming Shaman won out.

Dosan the Falling Leaf

A little expensive for the aggro after-role I’d like him to take. Too bad he doesn’t cost 2.

Glissa Sunseeker

I suppose her ability isn’t always relevant, but she has a good body.

Lieutenant Kirtar

He is a bit too weak as a 2/2 because it is not enough of a clock. As a 3/2, I’d definitely like him a lot more.

Eiganjo Castle / Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers

These aren’t strong enough to make up for being nonbasic, sadly, mainly because of Tarmogoyf’s existence.

Windbrisk Heights

I am a big fan of this card, and it could be good in this deck. However, I won’t be attacking with 3 creatures often enough to make the drawback worth it of being nonbasic and CIPtapped.

Exalted Angel

She seems too expensive to actually pull off, distracting you from the original combo. It’s too bad she’s not legendary. She could replace Cloudthresher, functionally.

Natural Order + Phantom Nishoba

Too hard to support, even though it wins. I could almost consider sideboarding it in rather than Iwamori… but its vulnerable to countermagic, and I think I can already beat Goblins/aggro.

Eternal Dragon and Loxodon Hierarch

Not legendary… and they don’t seem to do too much for this deck.

Proclamation of Rebirth and Promise of Bunrei

These were from the old deck, and take up too much space in the new one.

Jotun Grunt

I think Loaming Shaman is better for this deck for substantial reasons.

Kataki, War's Wage

I suppose you could always sideboard 1x, but he is probably not needed.

Glowrider and Thorn of Amethyst

Bladewing believes that this is too slow, but with only 8 noncreature, nonland cards, they are very useable.

5.0 General Tips for Playing the Deck

“You will survive,” so don’t think you need to block damage if you are at 22 and they attack with a 4/5 Tarmogoyf. You will eventually draw something that will either pull you out or win, so it is usually best to save all your creatures until the last moment.

If you are playing vs. control, try to resolve cards individually, play smart and conservatively in the light of a sweeper, and attack aggressively when there is lower risk, especially with mana creatures, etc.

Against decks with Daze, tap your mana creatures last if their board is clear of creatures, so that after preventing them from Dazing a spell first mainphase, you can attack them.

If you are playing vs. storm combo, try to prevent life loss from your own fetchlands until the last moment, and gain as much life from Wardens (I’ve hit at least 40 life before vs. creature decks, vs. combo, you can most likely get to 25-27 life by yourself) as possible and then attack or combo out yourself.

6.0 MWS Screenshots: The Deck in Action

Here are 30+ MWS Screenshots for you to browse to see the deck in action:

Click here to see a slide show.
Or here to see them in grid form.

[Isamaru]

7.0 Matchup Analysis

Sorry about this, but I haven't had time to test as thoroughly and rigorously as I want to yet because school has started back up. I will be working on this over the next few weeks.

These got deleted too because of the character limit when editing.

8.0 Strengths of the Deck, Why Now?

Every tier/played combo in Legacy has one thing in common: It is finite.
Storm combos, Cephalid Breakfast, and even Belcher are all finite. Solidarity is gone, as well. By definition, non-combo decks cannot deal infinite damage either, and most do not have a way to prevent from not decking first.

As mentioned before, the surprise factor is quite strong. Additionally, the combo is, interestingly, a lot less vulnerable than Crypt Champion used to be, because both cards end up in play at the end of the loop, while Champion would end in the graveyard.

Furthermore, the combo is not affected by Yixlid Jailer!
If they Pithing Needle some card, who cares? (as Gadiel has taught us to wonder) Either destroy the Needle, or just win instead while they're wasting time.

Superior strategy: I believe Flores has put this concept into words, but it is apparent that in aggro vs. aggro, the one that can gain infinite life is better off.

If the opponent plays Duress, good luck discarding something. Playing only 8 noncreature, nonland cards really helps. Still, Thoughtseize was printed, but people still play this card, so it is still relevant.

A combo deck… without the top-heavy nature or investment of a normal combo deck. I personally love that. A resolved Stifle sometimes just means you have to wait a turn to Survival for another copy of Saffi/Retainers (usually Saffi will end up in the graveyard, depending on which ability or trigger they stifle). Unlike with Crypt Champion, creature removal mid-combo can only kill one of the pieces, not leave you without both.

9.0 Conclusion

This is a lot stronger than it looks on paper, so shuffle it up on MWS – you don’t have to only take my word for it. I haven’t had time to test every matchup yet, so I am open to suggestions that can improve an unperceived weakness, either through sideboarding or some other overall strategy. Thank you for your feedback!

[APriestOfGix]

OMG FONT SIZE AND COLORS!!!


(i really can't even read you post it is SO annoying)

Final Warning. Your post is flaming spam. Goodbye.

-PR

[etrigan]

While I like your combo, I have some concerns.

- Dont you fizzle to Swords to Plowshares and sometimes to bounce? I would suggest Sylvan Safekeeper.

- What happens when you cant stick Survival? How often can you draw into your combo naturally? I dont think you have enough beatdown to get the job done when you dont.

[georgjorge]

Glissa Sunseeker - I suppose her ability isn’t always relevant, but she has a good body.

Lol. Speaking of which, I really like the lyrics.

Isn't there a green Sorcery which can tutor up Legends for 1G or G ? Although you might ust play Eladamri's Call...given that your combo is entirely creature-based, I'm wondering about the lack of these.

[Isamaru]

@etrigan

nobody plays bounce mainboard for the most part, but as I addressed in the post, one of the best things about this combo is that creature removal mid-combo can only lose you one creature maximum, unlike with Crypt Champion + Saffi, where you had two at risk mid-combo.

Saffi targets Retainers and they respond to her ability by removing Retainers from the game with StP. In response to that, or any removal, you sacrifice him to return Saffi. The difference is, they did stop the combo, but at least Retainers ends up in the graveyard. Any other time they cast removal would only lose you one creature as well (think about it), and you get priority immediately after playing the last piece of the combo in your first main phase. One of the strongest things about it is that it can be played all in one turn for 6 mana, often 5 mana for the non-Warden pieces, since a Warden will be out earlier usually.

Sylvan Safekeeper, as with Hulk Flash, will stop my combo mid-combo because they target eachother, so it won't help, sadly. He also doesn't help the aggro plan because he is so small. (Same for Bodygaurd.)

I should have enough beatdown to get the job done because I am either combo-ing or aggro-ing. It depends on your draw, first, and your choice, second. You chose your role in a matchup, and if they have left one blue open the whole game and you know they're playing Stifle, then stick to beatdown until you have enough redundancy that it doesn't matter. Or force them to waste Stifles on important other activations such as Fetchlands, Retainers targetting Akroma, Witness CIP, Karakas activation, etc.

Let's compare how often you'd draw at least one each of a 6/4/4 to how often you might recognize you'd draw at least one each of a 4/4/4: In most games with a UW deck, you will draw at least one each of Brainstorm, Force of Will, and Swords to Plowshares. True, you have blue to dig, but then consider that there are 4x Survival as well after that, too.

@georgjorge

Glad you like the lyrics

Time of Need is a sorcery, sadly, and - although I didn't give it that much time in the deck to see - Eladamri's Call seemed worse than Survival because it wasn't reusable.

I will be adding cards that are brought up and suggested to the opening post's list of them so that there is one place to see them all - stay tuned

[Finn]

Hell yeah. I taught this kid everything he knows.
Seriously, I did not. But I love this deck. SJ, I saw you post your opinions of Loyal Retainers a while back, and it never occurred to me that you would pursue that card. Asimira is the icing on the proverbial cake.

-completely and totally original. check
-the potential to be brrrrroken. (whether or not it is actually good enough now I have no idea, but it can certainly be made to be) check
-uses cards that Isamaru had to include links for because NOBODY knows wtf they are. check

Spike, meet my friend Johnny.

I feel like my own submission is a ridiculous waste of unoriginality by comparison.

Judges, I hope that you are not swayed by the mountain of attention being paid to one particular submission, and are able to see how cool this is. BTW, for the purposes of full disclosure, I DO have a bias. But consider that I have a submission of my own in this contest, and I still think this is the best deck.

[Bovinious]

The deck and combo seems solid if you can get a Survival out and stick it, but I dont really see much of a backup plan (other than drawing all peices...) here like other Survival decks have in the form of Goyf/Geese. Other Survival decks also have some hand disruption as well, and while they arnt great w/o Survival out, they dont seem to roll over as much as this deck seems to without Survival. How is this deck better than other Survival decks out there?

[Isamaru]

The deck and combo seems solid if you can get a Survival out and stick it, but I dont really see much of a backup plan (other than drawing all peices...) here like other Survival decks have in the form of Goyf/Geese. Other Survival decks also have some hand disruption as well, and while they arnt great w/o Survival out, they dont seem to roll over as much as this deck seems to without Survival. How is this deck better than other Survival decks out there?

If you read 3.0 Process of Building the Deck, I sort of described that Survival was almost an "afterthought." Shuffle it up and see how often you draw the combo without Survival; I don't want to / won't make any extravagant claims to you guys, but I think you should draw what you need to either combo or aggro pretty often, even without Survival.

So, the deck is not "a Survival deck" - and, to answer your question, then, I guess I think it's better than other Survival decks out there because: (besides not being a "survival deck" / built around the card) it includes a combo that does more than Welder in creatures like Welder Survival (though that concept is still strong, thanks to a lot of work from Finn and the people on the forums who worked together on it to find the best combinations and proportions, etc.), or find strong creatures to then play like RGSurvivalAggro or "Not Quite Survival" do with Flame-Tongue Kavu, Ravenous Baloth or Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant, etc.

So, the decklists posted on CaNGD should be starting points for discussion. If you think that it is lacking something, or you see a good way to splash a color for disruption or discard, or even if Tarmogoyf could perhaps invariably add some element of resilience to the deck, and so on, then please don't hesitate to test it out / discuss it.

[Cavius The Great]

@Isamaru - I love the Loyal Retainers/Sotf/fattie combo. That's a sweet idea I would of never thought of something like that. Do you have a playset of Loyal Retainters? I just checked SCG.com and they had 1 left at $20 bucks. I'm not sure if your deck drove it to that price or not, but I got to give you props for finding a way to abuse that card.

[georgjorge]

@georgjorge

Glad you like the lyrics

Time of Need is a sorcery, sadly, and - although I didn't give it that much time in the deck to see - Eladamri's Call seemed worse than Survival because it wasn't reusable.

While it's not reusable, one thing I learned from playing Survival is that it is a bit slow for this format, even Welder-Survival. I've lost many games where I got Survival down, even though there seems to be the general notion that "Survival is gg if it sticks", because my land got destroyed, my creatures bounced or removed or countered, while some Goyfs, Mongeese, Shades, Specters, or Goblins delivered the last damage to me. I've no clue how fast your deck is by itself, just saying that it better be rather fast to make good use of Survival.

[Cavius The Great]

I think this deck needs more Crop Rotation along with Wasteland. I've actually tested GW decks with Crop Rotation and Wasteland and it's just too good to be ignored.

[Sims]

I think this deck needs more Crop Rotation along with Wasteland. I've actually tested GW decks with Crop Rotation and Wasteland and it's just too good to be ignored.

Always having Wasteland when you need it is nice, but is trading 3 cards for 1 land (with no crucible for exploitz) really worth the substantial tempo loss you're going to net yourself with something that doesn't really help your combo any? It doesn't really seem so to me, not in this deck at least.

[Peter_Rotten]

After a few godfishes (getting a turn 3 combo win and plenty of 4+ wins including Survival) I have some quick questions:

How's the mana base holding up for you? I'm getting quite a few hands in which I have NO lands. Has this been much of an issue in your testing?

Two, is it possible to further streamline the deck? Can you cut Isao (what is he needed for?) and that card that I'm starting to refer to as Ass-Mirror? Genesis could be a natural inclusion and then maybe another E Witness.


edit: I don't goldfish decks, I GODfish them

[Zach Tartell]

Judges, I hope that you are not swayed by the mountain of attention being paid to one particular submission, and are able to see how cool this is. BTW, for the purposes of full disclosure, I DO have a bias. But consider that I have a submission of my own in this contest, and I still think this is the best deck.

I Will Survive is interesting, no? Not sure about viability yet, but it's at least interesting.

We've got our eyes open, brothers. Don't fret.

I have to say that I like the idea of not-storm based (or, for that matter, copy + paste based) combo decks. IWS (let's see that stick) is pretty legit-looking. It incorporates a solid game play into the shell of an existing deck, and doesn't seem to suck too much ass while doing it. I'm interested, to say the least.

[Cavius The Great]

Always having Wasteland when you need it is nice, but is trading 3 cards for 1 land (with no crucible for exploitz) really worth the substantial tempo loss you're going to net yourself with something that doesn't really help your combo any? It doesn't really seem so to me, not in this deck at least.

I've played this card combo in decks than ran BoPs and Llanowar/Fyndhorn Elves. The 3 for 1 card disadvantage is irrelevent. It's only really a two for one since your searching your deck for something that's in addition to what you have in play. Crop Rotation is also good with the entire deck since he's running Karakas, Pendelhavens and possibly Gaea's Cradle and Wasteland. I've tested Crop Rotation and Wasteland and having a tool box is really great. Whenever I searched for a Wasteland I never had regrets two for one'ing myself. This idea really excels at decks running low land counts and usually seals the game versus mana screws (believe me, this happens alot).

[C.P.]

Wow, nice build.

By the way, has living wish been considered on top of survival?

[scrumdogg]

Always having Wasteland when you need it is nice, but is trading 3 cards for 1 land (with no crucible for exploitz) really worth the substantial tempo loss you're going to net yourself with something that doesn't really help your combo any? It doesn't really seem so to me, not in this deck at least.

That would be a substantive no as it doesn't address the major concerns about the deck (which is an awesome idea btw, don't get me wrong). There are several problems as I see them, one of which has already been mentioned somewhat. What do you do when they STP your first combo piece as you're trying to cast the second combo piece? This is a problem only half the time, admittedly, but having a Saffi in play & a Retainers in the yard - NOT from play - is the logical mana progression & a problem. You have no target to use the first one on, leaving you hanging, same as if they counter the second combo piece. Creature based combo decks use Aether Vial for a reason. It allows you to work around most common forms of hate to starting your combo. It also means you aren't nearly as concerned with getting your lands & your mana weasels shredded, a far too common occurrence that traditionally gives SotF decks issues (trust me on this, I've been playing Survival in high level tournaments since well before Legacy replaced 1.5). Vial is great if it hits and fine if it sucks up a counter or destruction spell, as that should let Survival hit. Turn 1 Vial also speeds up the consistency of your combo, which in an era of ever speedier opposing combo, cannot help but be a good thing. Having the ability to Vial in a Teeg could also be fantastic as well as aiding the singleton Mangara/D&T plan, actually creating the lock with your existing Mangara & Karakas.
My other concern is the belief that this deck is 'going aggro' on anybody. 2/2s for 2 do not an aggro rush create, sorry. Isao, Loaming Shaman, Cloudthresher (wtf? when are you ever going to have 6 mana at a point in time when it would be relevant & you're not winning huge anyway? It also cuts you off from Birds effectively, which is a bad thing). Asmira seems really cool, but has she been effective? Have you ever had it be completely dead since you put out a Teeg? Akroma gets around that by morphing at least & makes a decent threat on the board with your Legendary swapping plan. This deck, if it wants to threaten anyone before Turn 13 without a combo option, needs a better aggro plan (or more combo built in)
Lastly (yes more than 2 concerns) is the lack of Genesis. Genesis & Witness are what allow to keep pounding control until they lose the ability to say no...and you establish control.
That being said, awesome deck idea & beginning, I will be trying to put this together myself (IRL, so anyone looking to trade Loyal Retainers send me a PM, I'll make it worth your while) and supporting your efforts with the deck.

[Isamaru]

@Peter_Rotten

Ass-mirror is not the best creature ever, but she is perfect for the deck... time will tell if she is needed or not.

I am glad to see that your God Fishing has been going well. Goldfishing is often the flashiest thing that makes combo decks likeable, but resilience and secondary plans and roles are where they shine or strengthen.

So, I suppose Genesis can help in this area, and I advocate his inclusion. I suppose I would take out a Cloudthresher (as said before) for 1 Genesis, going down to 1 Cloudthresher. (As scrumdogg says, Genesis provides a long game "trump" against control decks, which is something traditional combo doesn't really have access to.)

In Cloudthreshers, defense, I still think 6 mana is a fair price to pay for a 7/7 with Flash and Reach. It sometimes speeds up its clock to two swings since it deals 2 damage to the opponent when it comes into play, surprise-blocking an attacking creature (Tarmogoyf), etc. It never did / shouldn't kill Birds of Paradise (and they aren't needed anyway) until I began including 1x, and that can definitely be taken out. It appears in the list to present the idea that it is possible to run one as a survival target if you need something to chump block a SoFI equipped-Flyer from a Stompy deck, etc.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that that is one of the nice things about green creatures - neither of the Swords protect from green. This could randomly come in handy, but for the same reason, Shriekmaw hardcast sometimes hurts. Still, he gains you life when he CIP ... Still, removal shouldn't be the end of you, or that's the goal of this discussion, anyway.

@scrumdogg
It is true that the opponent could cast removal on combo piece #2 in response to you playing piece #3, but:

1. You still always only lose one creature to a targetted kill spell.
2. The opponent in game 1 often has no idea what's going on, or doesn't know the combo.
3. If the opponent is leaving the mana open every turn for a kill spell, they are losing tempo, and you can certainly play around when they do/don't have the mana open for the kill spell. Play smart! Beat down if you don't think you can combo off.

Another idea for resilience was/is Aether Vial. This is a personal crutch-card, and I put it into a lot of my decks. I thought I was being strong-willed by resisting to put it in, thinking it wasn't the right card for the deck... but in the end, it's one of the most unfair cards in decks that have enough creatures for it, so, I will find room for it. I originally simply did not want to play any more non-creature spells (I was sideboarding Glowrider + Thorn of Amethyst at the time and overlooked the simple truth that it comes down before those cards anyway), but now I realize that the non-creature downside (it doesn't gain you 1*WardensInPlay when you play it) is more than made up for by the overall strength of it's... well, bustedness.

So, now the "ideal" opener looks like Turn 1 Aether Vial, turn 2 Warden, turn 3 Saffi + hardcast Retainers (or wait until next turn to Vial them).

Another reason I did not want to include it was because it is wiped out by Pernicious Deed, but, after playing about 10 games vs. Pernicious Deed decks (testing is no where near finished nor even started), I realize that the poor Elves were going to die as it was, and that having a Saffi in play helps a large amount vs. Pernicious Deed as it is...

Sadly, you will no longer be able to gain 25 life vs. combo. Keep this in mind. Now something may have to be done, as you will only be gaining about 22 life vs. storm combo, which doesn't put Tendrils out of range as easily. I suppose a 1x True Believer and a 1x Children of Korlis from the sideboard could be your trumps, but they are very slow compared to having small elves to accompany the wardens, which took up no extra space.

Finally, Aether Vial cannot be discarded to Survival if put into a dire situation... but I suppose it is - again - "only" 4x Creatures, to the point where it would not / won't make a difference, in the end / that many instances.

Is it still worth all the benefits of Aether Vial, with the downside of not being a creature in a deck that appreciates it so much?

If you are convinced that the aggro-route has no merit and that you want to go full on combo (I don't think that this is the correct way to go), then try including Orim's Chant mainboard, as I said, and 1x-2x Dosan, the Falling Leaf. I think that, in the end, I believe that it is sadly not meant to be a full-combo deck, otherwise it wouldn't use creatures to perform the combo - I would have used Storm, etc.

Another reason I didn't include Genesis at first was because he is yet another creature that is bad in a hand without Survival, which wasn't originally the main plan of the deck. I didn't want to rely on Survival, but I suppose that Genesis hardcast is still not the end of the world. But if we are playing cards that are almost dead without Survival, I'd almost rather play Reya Dawnbringer than Akroma... though I'll admit Genesis is dead less often enough that he is worth playing, especially due to the strength of his ability and the function he provides the deck with.

@C.P.

Living Wish seems like it would take too much mana to set up the combo with, and creates too many Wish-Board/Survival-Board rarely-used slots between the mainboard and sideboard, after a point. So, if you think cutting down Saffi and Retainers to 3x is worth running an extra 4 at the cost of more, then please try it and see if it works out.

@lonely baritone & Cavius & others who have spoken kind words

Thank you for your interest. I am hoping that this can be a great starting point for the discussion, at the least.

@Cavius and Corrupted Angel

Is Wasteland right for the deck? I think Genesis would improve control more than 3-4x Wasteland could. In any case, I don't think Crop Rotation will help in this deck. It would be great to be able to search for Karakas or a Wasteland (if included), but the thing that worries me is Trinisphere or Chalice of the Void, which is actually when I would want Wasteland most: vs. a -mana-land deck.

@ the Price of Loyal Retainers

I missed an auction for a Japanese one the other day on eBay. It went for $2.50 after shipping. Let's just say that I won't be able to make this deck in real life for a while now, because they are $20 each on BuyItNow, and $22 on average, so, even though its the only card I'm missing... it might be a while until I could take this to a real tournament.