[M10] General Discussion on Rules Changes

[KrzyMoose]

http://wizards.com/magic/magazine/ar...ly/feature/42a

No Mana Burn.

Combat Damage no longer uses the Stack.*

You can no longer Wish for something that's been RFG'ed.

Discuss.

*I guess Mogg Fanatic ain't so Fantastic, anymore...

[Citrus-God]

http://wizards.com/magic/magazine/ar...ly/feature/42a

No Mana Burn.

Combat Damage no longer uses the Stack.*

You can no longer Wish for something that's been RFG'ed.

Discuss.

*I guess Mogg Fanatic ain't so Fantastic, anymore...

Pulse of the Fields is a fucking amazing card now. Thank you for the stupid fucking ruling.

Edit. Simultaneous mulling is kinda gay... No more bad ass combo mirror mind fuck where you make the opponent mull to four and you only mulling to six after the opponent fucks up.

Edit 2. The fact that combat damage no longer uses the stack means that the games in limited have gotten shittier.

[Soldar]

This combat damage thing... this is something that'll take a lot of getting used to.

Blocker order? I feel like this is pretty significant.

Edit: Nevermind, it's not as significant as I thought.

Okay, and every combo deck that uses top of library manipulation (Brainstorm, Mystical) gets the shaft being unable to float LED mana to draw. Yeah, I don't like this.

I've always thought the 6th edition rules made sense.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

You know, I really started out the article on the Magic team's side.

Then it was like... your creatures can no longer assign combat damage however you want. Unless they have Deathtouch, in which case they can. And this is intuitive and simple.

And old instances of the ability we evergreened as Lifelink no longer have Lifelink because Lifelink is now a static ability that only [s]triggers[/s] happens when damage is dealt or...

No, I don't know. I think it's impossible to read that thing and come away with any impression other than, "Mark Gottlieb is a seething moron".

I guess I have to run Pulse of the Fields now? Fuck. Acidic Slime seems good. This article was stupid and made me want to choke Aaron Forsythe to death with my foot. I love the random nerfing of Mogg Fanatica/Sakura-Tribe Elder that serves no function.

[Mordel]

Combat damage no longer going on the stack? What the fuck?!
I see it is getting closer to a curtains call for MtG and I. In every other game that I have played when they ruined aspects of the mechanics or rules, I stopped and I cannot fucking see a silver lining for giving combat damage independance of the stack. Just wow.

[ansset]

Relevant things to the format:

1. Upkeep LED/Draw step Ad Nauseam is not possible.
2. Solidarity can't do retarded things with Flash of Insight/Cunning Wish.
3. Death and Taxes doesn't do as many cool things.
4. Mogg Fanatic is worse.

Lots more things, but I think the first one is obviously the biggest to impact this format.

[Dan Turner]

Before it even starts yea some of the rules upset me, but everyone who is quitting magic PM me and I will send you my Addy where you can send your cards to, heck I will even pay shipping.

Well I don't know about my cool pimped out artist altered Foil Mogg Fanatics now kinda really pisses me off there.

but I get a new red card that comes pre-broken

Braid of Fire- the right deck will get this on the B & R list fast

[jthanatos]

No floating mana through steps seems odd. Also, I am very annoyed with the repeated itterations of "Many players decided not to learn the rules to the game, so we changed the rules to the game" does this mean if we, as actual rule oriented members of the playerbase, channel our inner mouth breather to not know how these new rules work, they will get changed back?

[Jaynel]

Bryant is probably crying somewhere. No more upkeep LED tricks.

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

Before it even starts yea some of the rules upset me, but everyone who is quitting magic PM me and I will send you my Addy where you can send your cards to, heck I will even pay shipping.

This.

Also, why with the combat damage change? The article made it seem so minimalistic, and yet that nerfs 90% of really cool combat tricks. My Ghost Council is sad I'd have to agree that it seems like they are "dumbing down" combat; and not even to accomodate newcomers, but in the interest of flavor. Ye God.

[Citrus-God]

Bryant is probably crying somewhere. No more upkeep LED tricks.

I'm crying that I can't float mana into draw step and spin my Top in response to Rishadan Port. Like, I guess I could spin it on upkeep?

[Mordel]

It's absurd how pallatable they are trying to make the game...absurd. Eventually the rules will be something like: "Magic is an intuitive game that asks that you use your imagination. All the cards do what you think they should.".

They're completely alienating the older players in trying to make the game as easily to pick up by beginners as possible. Whenever I read something that was along the lines of "...confuses people", I was basically interpretting it as "fucking idiots".

Also; what is it with idiots saying stuff like "if you're going to quit, send me your cards"? Do you actually think that will work? Honestly? Yeah, people spent a shitload of money on their cards and they're just going to give them away when they quit. I don't care what circumstances may surround you wanting a collection for free(MtGFan), someone essentially hadning you thousands of dollars and over fifteen years of memories is hideous. I, personally, will be holding onto my cards forever, whether or not I ever pick the game up again...which I probably won't since they seem to be wringing most of the allure the game holds out of it. Fuck Hasbro. I need to blame someone and I am pretty sure Gottlieb is just the dude that was asked to "make things as good for beginners as possible to get them dumping cash into our game as quickly as possible".

[PunkRocker1134]

Good thing most of my mtg these days is with my cube. Where at least I can pretend like this didn't happen until wizards realizes(hopefully) that this is bullshit. No mana burn is one thing, thats not terrible. But having combat not use the stack is bullshit. I hate wizards dumbing down this game. Seriously, learn how to play, its more rewarding as a player to learn these in's and out's then play a simplified game. God damn wizards can piss me off sometime.

edit: I just read over this new combat system shit. Why does wizards insist upon taking a shit on almost all of the older players? Why wizards, why? I know personally the only time I will abide by these new bullshit rules is when I play the occasional limited game at the local store.

[Sims]

Well, on the bright side, we know what shitty dual lands they are printing in M10...

Nonbasic lands that come into play tapped unless you control one of the two basic land types it represents (island or plains, island or swamp, etc.)...

Could be worse....

I'm not even going to get into the rules shit right now...cause my head is already hurting....

[rleader]

I like to bag on Isamaru's Vile Horror drama as much as the next guy, but no longer being able to mess around with Brand or Despotic Scepter is upsetting. The fact that you can stifle Gilded Drake now but not do any of the other classic NON BLUE interactions is just annoying.

I like how nonchalant they were about "oops, we made mana drain even better!"

So Ill Gotten Gains isn't quite what it used to be? Still trying to wrap my head around the wishes remain unchanged bit.

Just about every crappy deck I play with my crappy cards on MTGO uses nantuko husk or some other combat breaker; now I won't even get to make cool plays before I lose to real decks.

[AngryTroll]

Does this (half)nerf Hibernation Sliver also? I don't get it.

And significantly weaken Quasali Pridemage?

[Aggro_zombies]

Heh, I bet the token ownership thing pisses Isamaru off to no end. Now his shitty deck doesn't actually work anymore.

So, uh, the damage not using the stack thing...I'm confused. I can't just split damage how I want? What happens if my opponent has a damage prevention effect to save the guy I really wanted to kill? It seems almost as if the rules want you to double block, since it's advantageous to the defending player because he'll know how the damage will be assigned, and I can't assign three damage to his two toughness guy or something just to make sure it dies.

Also, not being able to put damage on the stack and then remove creatures from combat somehow is fucking gay.

EDIT: never mind, I read through it. My first and third point still stand.

EDIT 2: Let's say I have a Sakura-Tribe Elder that I assign as a blocker. Then, at the end of declare blockers, I sacrifice it to go search for a land. If the attacking creature does not have trample, it doesn't do any damage, right? And if it does have trample, it does it all to me?

EDIT 3: From now on, I'm going to announce the "beginning of the end step" in as dramatic a voice as possible, and then follow it with a menacing and very loud "BUM BUM BUUUUUUM!" Honestly, couldn't they have made it something less apocalyptic-sounding?

[Sun_Ra]

How am I supposed to beat scrubs with combat math and use of the stack now?

[JeroenC]

Most of the things I don't care about.

Except combat damage. FUCK THAT SUCKS. Takes a lot of the skill out of Limited, just like the forced "must deal lethal damage" rule, which doesn't allow someone to (for example) Pyroclasm post combat. Lol @ Mogg Fanatic and regenerate, both got MAJORLY nerfed.

Mana burn: well, I'm not happy, but I guess we had it coming and I can see the good points. Mostly that this will open up some design space they previously couldn't reach upon, so I guess that's good in a way.

Mana empties more often: sucks a little, but understandable. Let's do it.

[Isamaru]

I think I should speak on my own behalf, for all that I stood for and worked so long for.

Here is the final version of my design, which is now history. I was quite happy with this version, and each proportion is precise. If you ever have a chance, you can load it up on MWS and play with it. I'd only hoped to be understood.

Vile Horror by Stephen J
September 2005 - June 10th, 2009

2 Riptide Laboratory
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand
4 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical Island
2 Island
3 Swamp

4 Hunted Horror
4 Gilded Drake
4 Dark Confidant
4 Sage of Epityr
2 Trinket Mage
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Bitterblossom

4 Aether Vial
3 Tel-Jilad Stylus
2 Despotic Scepter
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Umezawa's Jitte / Vendilion Clique

Sideboard
1 Meekstone
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle / Duress / 3rd Relic
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Counterbalance
1 Propaganda
4 Hydroblast / BEB

The entire deck was either signed or foil, and my playmat was altered with Gilded Drake and Sage of Epityr by Steve Prescott and Rob Alexander at Grand Prix Columbus and Grand Prix Chicago where I played the deck.

I think I gave you all a run for your money. It's been a fun experience overall, but in the end... I've been freed of the burden.