[CaNG - Finalist] Karach

[Peter_Rotten]

Pemmin's Aura is probably the best, although I'm unsure about tying up my mana to pump Zur. I like to keep my mana open.

[Alfred]

This deck looks interesting. A lot of people were making fun of me for even thinking about using Zur in ANY deck.

Have you considered using a singleton Phyrexian Arena? Arena puts more counters on Hoofprints, is fetchable by Zur, and is generally just a good card to have in a dedicated control deck. The life loss isn't insignifigant, but you are getting Stag tokens twice as fast, so it would probably balance things out.

[Nihil Credo]

In my testing of this deck, I found the following:

Landstill match: Not too pretty. I actually got whupped by what I thought was Landstill but turned out to be the CaNG entry "Dreadstill." I was happy to try to grab his late Dreadnought with Threads, but alas, he countered.

I had to look up that list. In all honesty, I think you were unlucky if you lost to something other than an early Dreadnought. They need FoW to deal with Zur and Moat, either of which wins the game alone; though I guess they can Stifle your Transmute trigger, but that's one less Stifle for their combo, so...
Bouncing a Dreadnought with Clutch could also be fun.

Dragonstompy: Unsure yet. The build I was playing against didn't seem to be running Trini - which is a huge mistake IMO. Anyway, this deck has NO answer to red Akroma! I found that out the hard way. Ok, ok, I'll give you Story Circle, but it's only 1. Game 2 I Meddling Maged that bitch. Screw her for stealing a win. Anyway, if you can answer an early threat, you should be OK.

At first I thought "Mageing a morph creature? WTF?" but then I remembered Counterbalance (and StP, if not Chaliced) can stop morph nicely.

Thresh: Smacked it a little bit. An early Story Circle on green proved problematic for the Thresh player.

Quick note: if they play UG or UGW and no Needle, Story Circle is basically a hard lock by itself ;)

Affinity: I thought I was totally in control of this match - Moat had a nice lockdown. Unfortunately, Zur is a crappy clock and the Affinity player set up a Fling trap for me. With Cranial in play, I was forced to counter an Ornithopter (of all things) since I had spent my ORings on Disciples, my Desire on another Ornithopter, and my Declaration of NOT naming Ravager. God, searching up Energy Flux would have been EpicLulz.

Hold on there. Was Threads of Disloyalty still in the deck? That would have handled Ornithopter nicely (also would have been insanely funny if he equipped it immediately and had no other creatures to move Ornithopter to).

Declaration of NOT! This card has been totally unneeded in my limited testing. Once Zur is going, I think there could be other more useful things to find. Simply a third ORing may work. Another Threads? Main Propaganda?

Tell me something I don't know! It's indeed mediocre-to-useless in many games, but you haven't faced any of the decks against which Declaration covers your ass (mainly, anything with sweepers). I think I'd strongly consider taking it out if the 3cc slot can be pushed up to at least 7 cards, so that we can rely on Counterbalance to stop Deed.

Alternatively, it can be put in the SB if there isn't much control in the meta.

Brainstorming more Enchantments:

• Mind Harness?

Awesome against Aggro Loam (unless they run Chalice like me ;) ). Good, but unneeded against Threshold. So-so against Goblins.

Supression Field?

Tried it. It hurts us A LOT (Top, fetches, Hoofprints, Dragon).

Solitary Confinement?

Needs something to support it. Sleeper's Robe is the best I've seen so far (for Phyrexian Arena, see below)

Energy Field?

I'm testing it right now. It's pretty damn good as a Fog on crack... I've adorably slapped Goyf Sligh with it! I'm seriously considering giving it a spot now.

Parallax Nexus (ohh! so janky!)?

It doesn't let you pick the card. Ew. I'm not even testing it.

Phyrexian Arena (ok, now I'm just being silly)?

Good for Hoofprints, and enables Solitary Confinement. But aside from the life loss, it's got the problem double black, and the deck already requires UU for Counterbalance and WW for Moat. When I ran it for a while (admittedly with a fairly earlier list) it got stuck in my hand pretty often.

I can't remember what exact manabase I used back then, though, so I could try giving it a second whirl.

Dystopia?

Killing Zur, Moat, Hoofprints, Dragon, Circle? No thanks! (You still have to sacrifice one even if you only keep it for a turn)

I totally thought they were crap in my testing. Until I was in a losing postion and figured I'd Transmute for the hell of it... Oh wait... It gets Zur! (My actual thoughts in a game!) Yeah, I'm now a fan since it gets the UBW Survival for Enchantments.

:D And this isn't really a deck that truly abuses that uncounterable tutor.

I'm really want to find an enchant that doubles as a quick win-con. Hoofprints may not be cutting it.

I'll admit, this does not reflect my experience; Hoofprints has been nothing but fantastic. I had some Exalted Angel in the very first builds; I cut them very quickly because I was always winning with cheap 4/4 beats.

Maybe I just happen to draw more Tops than I should (they get you an extra draw for ). When I just want to close the game, I fetch both Hoofprints and start pumping out a 4/4 token every turn. Let's not get into what you can do with two Tops in play.

Hmmm, what if we put some sort of Aura in there to boost Zur? Maybe something like Sinister Strength? Strength of Lunacy (pro-white is cute)? Phyrexian Boon could provide flexibility.

If you want to speed up the finishing blow, you could use any combination of Pemmnin's Aura, Griffin Guide, Daybreak Cornet, or Battle Mastery.

Pemmin's Aura is the best of those, but spending for 3 damage doesn't look much sexy when you could spend for a 4/4 beater.

But really, if you're interested in running sheer pump (I'm not) nothing beats good old Empyrial Armor.

EDIT: Know what? I'm not putting it in my list, but the next few times I'm swinging with a Zur I'll note down if I'd want to grab an Empyrial Armor. Virtual testing, so to say.

(I just noticed a hilarious combo: if you run Leaden Fists and Second Wind, either card can work as a Pacifism on its own... but they can combine to give +3/+3 to your creature! Plus they're blue. I'm almost ashamed of such a janky idea.)

[Nihil Credo]

Compared to the intense testing I did before posting this deck, I've been going pretty slow (university, apartment drama, and Neverwinter Nights 2 may also have played a part). Nevertheless, I have formed an opinion on the cards I'd been trying out.

- After a promising start, Energy Field ended up disappointing me. It did win me a few games against Red-based aggro decks, but every other time I played it my opponent got to destroy it for free, either by countering something (and - this is what I hadn't expected - I had to play something when my hand size reached eight) or by forcing me to counter something, like a StP on Zur. Also, when fetching with Zur, I went for Story Circle over it practically every time, with the two exceptions of an Ichorid game (where I also had Declaration set to Therapy) and a Faerie Stompy one where I was on the verge of death and fearful of Trinket Mage -> Needle.

The sad thing is that I can't even run Field as a SB option, because every non-terrible deck in the format will bring in some enchantment destruction, so the chance of it turning into a 1-for-2 is basically 100%; in fact, I kept siding it out for this very reason.

- Volrath's Stronghold: Turns out that when Zur dies, it's practically always Swords to Plowshares. I used it exactly once in about a dozen games, after Zur got FoWed.

Next up on the testing bench:

- Kor Haven, a pet card of mine which has the potential for complementing Moat nicely.
- Phyrexian Arena and Solitary Confinement (as a 61-card build, cutting Story Circle). I'm wary of the potential for fail if Confinement gets blown up at the wrong time, so I'll almost certainly side the combo out every time; but the opportunity to Just Win on turn five is also very attractive.
- Empyrial Armor: This time I'll try to remember to do the 'virtual testing' I mentioned in the post above.

[GiantGrowth]

I'd like to say that I am very interested in this deck, and will probably try it out once an updated list is posted.

Edit- you know, before energy field is thrown out, what about using it with planar void? I know, ew two card combo, but planar void doesn't hurt anything in your deck. Plus, it randomly hoses GYbaed decks (somewhat). and its not dead against non GY-based due to the interaction with energy field. I don't see the harm in testing.

[Waikiki]

Planar void and energy field don't work together:

10/4/2004 The card does go to the graveyard before it is removed from the game, so other triggered abilities will trigger on the card going to the graveyard.

[largebrandon]

What about planar void and Web of Inertia? Kinda like a mini moat.

[Nihil Credo]

What about planar void and Web of Inertia? Kinda like a mini moat.

Both cards do little (Void) or nothing (Web) on their own. Moreover, by the time you land a Web of Inertia, it's a safe bet they'll have enough cards in their GY to pay for enough attacks to finish you.

[sauce]

would living wish have a place in this deck or would going 4 colors be too bad for the mana base?

a 1 of living wish in case of stp/oring on zur and just run 1 zur in the sb 3 main?
thoughts?

throw some shield of the godhead and oblivion rings in here?

[bruno_tiete]

- After a promising start, Energy Field ended up disappointing me. It did win me a few games against Red-based aggro decks, but every other time I played it my opponent got to destroy it for free, either by countering something (and - this is what I hadn't expected - I had to play something when my hand size reached eight) or by forcing me to counter something, like a StP on Zur. Also, when fetching with Zur, I went for Story Circle over it practically every time, with the two exceptions of an Ichorid game (where I also had Declaration set to Therapy) and a Faerie Stompy one where I was on the verge of death and fearful of Trinket Mage -> Needle.

The sad thing is that I can't even run Field as a SB option, because every non-terrible deck in the format will bring in some enchantment destruction, so the chance of it turning into a 1-for-2 is basically 100%; in fact, I kept siding it out for this very reason.

How about Wheel of Sun and Moon? I am not sure it's been tried, but it would prevent Energy Field to ever go away and could maybe double as GY hate against funny decks.

Well, it's probably stretching it...

[Mordel]

...and a year later...it rose from the grave!!!

[bruno_tiete]

So it might be a good thing that both posts suggested card that had not been printed at the time...

But yeah, I havent seen that.

[scarlet_moon]

I really like the idea of Energy Field and Wheel of Sun and Moon. Together with some Enlightened Tutors this is a good option against Burn/Aggro-Decks and both cards are ok on their own.
Wheel is really good against GY-Decks and recursion in general (only a bit slow), can protect against Mill-Combo and together with Field, its a good softlock. Counterbalance and hardcounter helps a lot to protect this.
Its better then Confinement-lock in this deck. Its better then Propaganda. Against some decks, its better then Moat. I really give it a try now :P

[MTG-Fan]

I've been playing Zur the Enchanter decks in Standard and Extended as long as he's been legal.

I've been wanting to build a Legacy Zur deck for a while now, and I'm glad that other people have discovered how powerful he can be.

Quick note: there's a card in Shadowmoor called "Steel of the Godhead" that costs 3 mana, is blue/white so pitchable to Mox & Force, and makes Zur lifelinked, unblockable and +2/+2. It's pretty sweet if you want to speed up Zur's clock. I always run 1-2 fetchable MD.

Also, Threads of Disloyalty is the most ridiculous card ever if fetched by Zur in a format swarming with 1-2cc creatures. I'd run at least 2 MD and 2 more in the SB... you can board the 2 out in the few rare matchups where Threads isn't relevant.

[fourleafedmonkey]

So I have been running a Zur deck for quite a while. It has turned into a landstill/faerie/fish hybrid sort of thing and it usually gets the upperhand in the end.

Creatures 12:

4 Zur, the Enchanter
4 Trinket Mage
4 Spellstutter Sprite

3 costing enchantments 12:

2 Oblivion Ring
1 Steel of the Godhead
2 Bitterblossom
3 Counterbalance
2 Standstill
2 Threads of Disloyalty

1 Costing Artifacts 3:

1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle

Other Spells 12:

4 Sword to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will

Lands 21:

1 Plains
2 Islands
2 Swamps
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
2 Scrubland
4 Mutavault

The card advantage is insane in this deck
Bitterblossom is way faster than Hoofprints and lets you play spellstutter as a hard counter a lot of times.
Steel of the Godhead makes Zur actually able to do damage, and speeds up the clock when he finally hits.
The Threads is untested as of right now, I think it is a great idea though.

[Moxen]

I'm surprised no one mentioned underworld dreams. You could use it as a 1- of to fetch up with zur. I had an extended version of zur that used howling mines and underworld dreams + counter/top that worked fairly well. For the late games I had a forced fruition in there just for some extra laughs.

[Benjammn]

...nothing else to say.

[(nameless one)]

Y'all should check this thread:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?12181-[Deck]-Zur

[Moxen]

Y'all should check this thread:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?12181-[Deck]-Zur

I actually followed a link in that thread to this thread. Sorry, didn't realize it was so old.