It is in play. You put the comes into play ability on the stack.
The Source: Your Source for "The Source: Your Source for..." cliche.
Ok ok, just read literature about it
So basically, what was totally unthinkable in Mirage Block when it got released, is now possible.
I guess Magic is that kind of game where bending rules is the game essence
I understand better why the Nought is getting more expensive than tarmo itself lately...
That way, we got so many more chances to get it on the map turn1.
That's pretty nasty alright !
I made it to top 8 with the deck (26 participants), only change was -2x Arcbound Worker into +2 Sensei's Divining top
All my losses were due to play mistakes (hey, I am not a very good player), e.g. Stifling a Mishra's Factory with my opponent having a gazilion mana open to reactivate it again
AND Pithing Needle on Mishra's Factory with my opponent having an engineered explosives in 'yard and Academy Ruins in play. Bummer!
But I can say that the deck is good but not über-easy to play. You have tough choices to make especially for the blue cards: what to sacrifice to Force, what to put under Mox, do we put anything under mox at all, etc...
Vision Charm rules so much, I already did some sick things with it:
during upkeep turning all his mountains into plains feeling like a Time Walk. Or Top shows me nothing? 4 top cards of my library to 'yard...
But I guess there is nothing like phasing out an Ensnaring Bridge with a Plated Dreadnought in play, swinging for 28 , staying at 1 life and moving to top 8
Alright, you guys. I have been working on this deck quite a lot lately because I wanted to take it to the German Legacy Champs on August 31st. I did some changes to the decklist, playtested a lot, but then I got really sick the week before the tournament and wasn't able to go on sunday. That sucked because last year I wasn't able to go either, but I guess shit happens.
By the way, does anybody know when and where this year's Dutch Legacy Champs are?
Anyway, here's the new decklist and some explanations. The biggest change might be that I cut FoW for Dark Confidant:
// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
4 [B] Underground Sea
// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [5E] Ornithopter
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 [FUT] Epochrasite
3 [DS] Arcbound Worker
// Spells
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [VI] Vision Charm
4 [SC] Stifle
3 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
You could run a 3/3 or a 4/2 split between Aether Vial and Chrome Mox... I prefer the 3/3 split, but I guess this is personal preference to some degree as well as your metagame.
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [FNM] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [A] Winter Orb
SB: 4 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
One of the deck's biggest weaknesses was card disadvantage. Thoughtcast isn't enough card advantage to justify both Chrome Mox and FoW and because of that, mass removal was devastating for the deck (of course it still is to some degree, but we will come to this later). Also, FoW couldn't be used reliably because of all the card disadvantage... and really there are only a few threats that you really need to take care of. I than chose to cut FoW and Thoughtcast for Confidant and Cabal Therapy. Even though this was strong, I noticed that this makes Chrome Mox rather weak, because you really need blue mana for Stifle and Vision Charm. Aether Vial works as a mana fixer for Dark Confidant (and also as another card that combos well with Dreadnought), but 8 blue sources wasn't enough for Stifle and Vision Charm. So I went and cut Therapy (even though it was kind of strong) for even more card advantage and added Thoughtcast again. Chrome Mox now has approximately ¾ chance of being a blue mana source, which is much better. Also, the card advantage of Confidant and Thoughtcast is sick!
After Aether Vial proved itself to be really good, I cut Frogmite for Epochrasite because of the synergy with Vial and Dark Confidant.
I'm pretty sure that this decklist is really strong right now... it is not Affownity anymore but a much stronger Dreadnought Affinity list. But the absence of FoW isn't all that bad... the few cards that you desperately need to handle because they really make you lose (Deed, Disk) can be handled by Stifle (and Pithing Needle postboard), as well.
I think I will edit the newest list into the opening post, as well as some new matchup analysis (Landstill, It's the Fear).
Any questions regarding the changes?
Sometimes you have to read between the minds.
++ T8ing all over Europe since 2005 ++
++ Team aYb - all your base (are belong to us) ++
Originally Posted by Lukas Preuss
Wat = What; NK (Nederlands Kampioenschappen; Dutch Championship)
Waar = Where; location: IJsselhallen, town: Zwolle
Wanneer = When
Prijzen = Prize Support (free translation); boosters and judge foils, but nothing is set in stone yet afaik
Kosten = Entree Fee (free translation); about 10 Euro, also, not certain yet.
Rondes = Rounds; depending on how many are coming.
Source: BeneLegacy Forum
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
No Disciple? Why?
Team PGK (Psychopathic Garbage Kids)
Impressed, at first glance this looks very strong. I was a heavy defender of Dark Confidant in affinity two years ago. And seeing there is not much hate in my current meta, I was toying the idea to get back to a standard list with Confidant, thoughtseize, atog and fling. Now I have a better challenge, your list! The only thing is that I am not sure of 4x Dark Confidant. I always tried to cut one in previous versions...
And thoughtcast+confidant is a bit weird imo, 5 damage seems a lot to me...
Will do some testing with the deck, but will take some time,please let us know your tournament results with the deck!
*Edit: Not convinced with test results so far, I have too many dead cards from time to time eg epochrasite...
Last edited by Scampi; 09-09-2008 at 05:36 AM.
While I've already posted this in Vial Affinity, and I don't wish to be redundant or spamming, I think the following card definitely deserves mention in an affinity deck thread that actually uses (or has been known to use) FoW.
Master of Etherium - 2U - */*
Artifact Creature - Vedalken Wizard
Master of Etherium's power and toughness are each equal to the number of artifacts you control.
Other artifact creatures you control get +1/+1.
peace,
4eak
Here is what I would play next time:
4x Ornithopter
4x Arcbound Worker
4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Frogmite
4x Phyrexian Dreadnought
2x Somber Hoverguard
4x Chrome Mox
4x Cranial Plating
4x Vision Charm
4x Stifle
4x Thoughtcast
2x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Darksteel Citadel
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Wasteland
4x Island
Okay, so when you cut FoW, you should be less influenced by card disadvantage. But obviously you cut 4 blue cards as eventual Mox-targets, so I suggest putting 2x Somber Hoverguard in: great at putting underneath mox turn 1 and also a good finisher.
For the other 2 slots I prefer Top: I know I must be about the only affinity player at planet earth to do this but you must try and love it...This has won me so many games and saved me from mulligans a gazilion time. I do board them out mostly after game 1.
Any feedback on this attempt would be great.
Wow, this looks awesome. I think this will be the primary Affinity build to make use of this card, simply because it doesn't only fit perfectly into the Affinity part of the deck, but because it allows you to run another blue card without lowering your artifact count... I think I will have to rework the mono blue shell of the deck again!
Sometimes you have to read between the minds.
++ T8ing all over Europe since 2005 ++
++ Team aYb - all your base (are belong to us) ++
While I prefer Vial Affinity, I do enjoy trying out other variations.
For those interested in keeping Dreadnought in AfFOWnity, then I'd try this out:
Creatures: 20
4x Arcbound Worker
4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Frogmite
4x Master of Etherium
4x Phyrexian Dreadnought
Other Artifacts: 9
3x Cranial Plating
3x Aether Vial
3x Springleaf Drum
The Blue: 13 *(17 w/MoE)
4x Force of Will
4x Thoughtcast
4x Stifle
1x Vision Charm
Lands: 18
4x Vault of Whispers
4x Seat of the Synod
2x Darksteel Citadel
4x Glimmervoid
4x Island
In my experience, MoE is plenty of fattness, enough so that we shouldn't bastardize the mainboard for Dreadnought. I think AfFOWnity should look a lot more like:
Creatures: 23
4x Arcbound Worker
4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Frogmite
4x Disciple of the Vault
4x Master of Etherium
3x Somber Hoverguard
Other Artifacts: 9
3x Cranial Plating
3x Aether Vial
3x Springleaf Drum
The Blue: 10 *(17 w/MoE+SHGuard)
4x Force of Will
4x Thoughtcast
2x Misdirection
Lands: 18
4x Vault of Whispers
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Darksteel Citadel
4x Glimmervoid
2x Wasteland
I'll quickly discuss some of the more difficult choices:
Somber Hoverguard -- He isn't amazing, but he is cheap enough, he flies, and he's blue. He is the last blue card I put in the deck.
Disciple of the Vault -- If you can play him, then you should. He fills a very important niche. He wins games all by himself and he's an essential part of the combo aspect of this deck. He also punishes control.
Cranial Plating -- only 3 because it is so mana intensive and suffers from diminishing returns in multiples. This was a tough cut, but this deck has to make them if it wants to play FoW.
Vial/Drum -- 3/3 split has tested very well with MoE.
Misdirection -- seems questionable, but this is really FoW 5-6 (with 7-8 in the sideboard). It wins counterwars and it eats StP. I'll test further having 4x MisD in the main and let you know. This is solid protection for MoE.
Wasteland -- I prefer it to Nexus in this deck.
peace,
4eak
Wow, MoE really is a bomb, even better then I suspected...
I will try some different builds out
@4eak: I see you cut ornithopters for the MoE, my first thought was to cut the frogmites for these, any opinion on this?
another thing to consider: is it worth cutting the wastelands for let's say Vault of Whispers? After all, MoE is 3 mana, and more artifacts is always better...
My first thoughts:I see you cut ornithopters for the MoE, my first thought was to cut the frogmites for these, any opinion on this?
Frogmite has a body that does damage. Like Arcbound Worker, he is part of the core of the deck. Frogmite is aggressive. Ornithopter isn't as necessary; it acts mostly as acceleration with a nice evasion finish possibility. AfFOWnity is working towards becoming an aggro-control deck, and Ornithopter doesn't play as pivotal a role as it does in the exclusively aggro-combo versions of affinity.
But, hey, try it out! =)
Well, I am already playing Vault of Whispers in both lists. Great Furnace/Tree of Tales seem like great choices in place of Wasteland.is it worth cutting the wastelands for let's say Vault of Whispers?
I am, primarily, unconcerned with a 3rd color in the deck because the list is already extremely blue heavy. It should grab mostly blue or artifact cards from the sideboard. Wasteland just seemed like a better choice at the time because it was further disruptive. That doesn't mean Wasteland is a better choice than artifact lands though, especially in a deck that is gasping for more artifacts. I think you are right.
How about:
-1 Glimmervoid
-2 Wasteland
+3 Great Furnace or Tree of Tales
peace,
4eak
You are probably right about the Thopters, will switch them...but I'll take the workers out ofc. Stupid I had'nt thought of that... weakest creature and post-board you might play Chalice for 1 against certain decks (sligh and elves only comes to mind). So that comes in handy whilst Thopter is 1 less mana, has evasion and stops lackey...
What I don't like about your first list is that there is Springleaf drum, which I believe is more a mana fixer. So I would leave Chrome mox in it. Not sure about aether vial, but I think we don't run enough creatures to abuse it enough, and after it reached 3 counters, you can't use it to put other creatures into play.
I would definitely play 4x Vision Charm! Protecting 'Nought, MoE, or whatever is just great! I can't tell you how many vision charms I played on a goblin player in his upkeep to keep him from red mana, it feels like a time walk every time (okay, slightly exaggerated I admit)
If we insert Frogmite, I would take out wastelands and put Vault of Whispers instead (turn 1 worker, turn 2 Ravager and froggy, turn 3 etherium swing for 7 could be considered a "reasonable" opener
4x Ornithopter
4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Frogmite
4x Master of Etherium
4x Phyrexian Dreadnought
3x Chrome Mox
4x Stifle
4x Vision Charm
4x Force of Will
4x Thoughtcast
4x Cranial Plating
4x Darksteel Citadel
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Vault of Whispers
4x Island
1x Blinkmoth Nexus
This should work out pretty well imo, only thing that bothers me is the mana base. I am not sure if this can work on only 17 land + 4 moxes, perhaps:
+1 Great Furnace
-1 Cranial Plating (because most of our critters are big on there own and don't have flying)
or:
+1 Island
-1 Cranial Plating
or even:
+4 Wasteland
-1 Vault of Whispers
-1 Blinkmoth Nexus
-1 FoW
-1 Cranial Plating
Last edited by Scampi; 09-11-2008 at 01:47 PM.
I tested this deck yesterday (as above post) vs. my friend who is a superior GoyfSligh player.
Results were pretty stunning: pre-board: 6-0 (which is due to 'Nought and MoE, too big to handle for sligh)
post-board: 2-2 (2 times he won was because he was able to cast 2 out of 3 tin-street hooligans)
Looks very promising so far!
I'm surprised he couldn't kill you with price of progress, but I can see how he would have problems with a resolved dreadnought.
Price of Progress is indeed a great threat, but not if you have a Ravager out, you just sac enough lands to be reasonable... with this manabase, you most likely have 2 artifact lands and 1 island in play, so max. damage would be 4. And then there is always FoW, you probably want to counter PoP or perhaps Tarmogoyf
makes sense, forgot about Ravager.
Question:
I used to play FOWaffinity when it first came out, and I found one of its greatest attributes was the city of traitors/ancient tomb first turn into a chalice. Now I have not played the deck in a while and it looks to have morphed into something totally different altogether, but why was that dropped from the mana base? Is there no more room for it or was it deemed obsolete?
anyways the reason i was asking is because i love the dreadnought combo, and if no one is expecting affinity then it can be a great glass canon, so i might try to pick up the deck again since i have mostly all of the cards.
The problem is that combining the dreadnought engine ('Nought+stifle+vision charm) with Chalice for 1 isn't working too well... We still put chalice in the board vs. combo (on 0) and on a rare occasion on 1.
This deck seems like a great choice in the right meta, like mine, which totally isn't prepared for Affinity.
Tested against UW control yesterday with the toolbox: FOW, counterspell, top, swords, counterbalance and as win condition show and tell for the 11/11 trampler.
I got hammered big time, and even didn't find an answer post-board (chalice for 1? might be ok). I think wastelands are needed in matchups like this, so I will add them again. Here is the new list:
4x Ornithopter
4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Frogmite
4x Master of Etherium
4x Phyrexian Dreadnought
4x Chrome Mox
4x Cranial Plating
4x Force of Will
4x Thoughtcast
4x Stifle
4x Vision Charm
4x Island
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Darksteel Citadel
4x Wasteland
I also played vs. Belcher combo, which is a walk in the park especially post-board (Needles, stifle, force,...)
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