[Deck] Reanimator

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Originally Posted by 4eak

Show and Tell isn't entirely transformational in my opinion, although it obviously avoids a serious weakness. I think you should either play 1 or 4 in the SB. I know a lot of people might disagree with Tombstalker, the argument being that TS is GY-dependant. I believe TS is acceptable. GY hate is never used until it must be used, and unfortunately for your opponent, if they don't know you have TS, they aren't going to wipe your GY (because they are waiting for a target + Reanimation spell). Game 3 or later in the tournament, the TS-tech isn't so hot.

I think Painter's combo actually fits very easily into the U/B control shell. Trinket Mage, a single EE, a single Fabricate (Mystical) can be part of the sb package. A single SDT, Lim Dul's or Ponder in the main can work very nicely with a Painter's sideboard, while remaining still useful in unsided games. Reanimate can bring back non-RFG removed or countered painter's. Heck, you can leave in some Entombs as a way to tutor Painter or T-mage in a pinch.

It has been okay in testing. It is definitely a surprise, and it doesn't rely on the GY. Even CB-Top or Dark Confidant could easily go into a version of Reanimator that had a Painter-transformational sideboard. I'm not convinced a full transformational sideboard is worth watering down the strategy, however, we should at least consider leveraging the control package, which can play nicely with so many other cards (having a different gameplan entirely from Reanimator) in this format.


peace,
4eak

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Painter combo sounds pretty good too. I've even considered Storm an option, since I run rituals, fetches, and petals.

Two problems with a good storm transformation:

1. For a reasonable Storm build, you really have too many cards to side-in which can't be pre-sided -- this alone prevents it.
2. The permission package has no place in a storm deck.

U/B based painter decks aren't that far away from this deck, which makes the transformational sb quite possible. You wouldn't even need a perfect transformation, as the surprise and versatility of 2 different strategies could be enough.

In my experience, the Mystical tutor silverbullet package (answering so many forms of hate) combined with the succinct and focused Reanim build performs better than transformation packages. That may change if the metagame shifts to answer this deck; for some metagames, I could certainly see why someone would choose such a different sideboard.



peace,
4eak

After some testing, I have problems beating Depths consistantly. It dependes on the initial pressure and our speed, at least, that's what I got.

Is anyone using green splash? If so, how do you sideboards look like? I have moved towards the full S&T plan like Practical Joke has done. It's nice to see their 2x Hate pieces on the table :D
Reverent silence and Krosan grip are useful? I'd try nature's claim....

Any ideas?

@ Davetradint

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After some testing, I have problems beating Depths consistantly. It dependes on the initial pressure and our speed, at least, that's what I got.

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I can't seem to find a Dark Depths thread in Established. With 29 results in the past 4 months, it probably should have a write up. Unfortunately, the deck hasn't crystallized at all -- so it is difficult to know what particular version of Depths you're finding problematic.

From what I can see, there are 3 general builds of Depths:

1. BG Aggro-control
2. UBx Countertop
3. UB StifleNought

These cards will generally be in every build:

• Dark Depths/Hexmage (duh)
• Dark Confidant
• Wasteland (necessary against opposing wastelands, but in this case, just another disruption element)

Don't expect to win long battles against this deck. Echoing Truth in the main is excellent (and you won't be siding it out), but you'll have to pick it up before (or within the same turn or so) that they drop the full combo, as they won't activate until your end step. Stifle (and particularly Trickbind in the blue matches) serves to fight against some of the GY-hate as well as their combo.


1. B/G -- this is a nightmare.

• Aggressive creature list, including Goyf, which puts the game in their favor in control attrition wars
• Living Wish board
• Gatekeeper kicked, Smallpox, and Edict effects
• Hymn, Seize, Duress
• Crop Rotation->Bojuka Bog (Living Wish->Bojuka Bog -- although, terrible at sorcery speed, still useful in some cases)
• A very diverse set of GY-hate cards: Leyline, Trap, Extirpate, Relic, Crypt, Bog, Faerie.

I suggest Stifle (hits GY hate and their combo, nicely) + more Bounce in this matchup. Look for early Iona reanimation hands. I don't think you can curb this matchup much.


2. Countertop -- this is generally the easiest flavor to beat (that sounds weird, I know).

• Heavy blue shell (they'll run 3-4 more counters than us, but you may run discard effects to match them)
• Slower gameplan, sometimes including asymmetrical (in our favor) cards like Deed.
• Less GY hate
• Usually, no relevant removal

As usual, keep Counterbalance off the table. I actually consider this version to just be worse than CounterTop Thresh. The manabase, removal suite, cantrip engine, win conditions are all weaker in this particular matchup. Without usable removal, you don't have to protect your reanimation target post-combo nearly as much. This will let you use your protection to force through your combo early. Thoughtseize is savage in this matchup. Reanimator's card selection, redundancy, and speed will generally overtake this matchup. I side in Grips and a Stifle effects.


3. StifleNought -- this can be a very swingy match, in part because they have wildly different gameplans depending on the hands they open.

• Two cheap combos, but a somewhat inconsistent deck.
• Lim-Dul's Vault is run in most of these versions. Vault is very good in this deck, as it stitches the 2-combo deck together.
• Mana-Denial (which interestingly protects their combo against opposing wasteland decks) is quite effective against us.

Like Dreadstill, they open a hand and play the route that was dealt to them. Sometimes they'll be picking apart your manabase and going for the Depths combo; other times they'll go for Stiflenought.

Looks for signs of baiting (which is how the deck will leverage unused pieces). It is generally worth countering/seizing Lim-duls here, as it is the real backbone of card selection (even better than Brainstorm here, if you can believe it), in this deck. For example, they may have 1 piece from each of the combos + a Lim Dul's. So, if you can only answer one, then go for the card which can find the missing piece and stack the deck.

In addition to your Echoing Truth, Stifle and Nature's claim (2-for-1's) will be your serious bullets. Blazing Archon game 1 is an autoscoop for most of the builds -- as they have no answer and lose all ability to race you by comboing the next turn, and you will eventually resolve a reanimation spell for Inkwell.

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Is anyone using green splash? If so, how do you sideboards look like? I have moved towards the full S&T plan like Practical Joke has done. It's nice to see their 2x Hate pieces on the table :D
Reverent silence and Krosan grip are useful? I'd try nature's claim....

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I splash green. Here is my current Sideboard:

SB: 2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 1 [US] Show and Tell
SB: 1 [OD] Extract
SB: 1 [TE] Perish
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [NE] Reverent Silence
SB: 1 [4E] Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [TSP] Trickbind
SB: 1 [TO] Sickening Dreams
SB: 1 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap
SB: 1 [SC] Stifle

Nature's Claim is really quite nice. I board it in more often than Grip. However, against Chalice and CB, Grip is really quite important. Again, split second breaks the information symmetry of Mystical tutor to some extent. I run multiple Grips because I really want a better chance to draw/cantrip into Grip in the matches where I would want it. Claim, on the other, isn't as good in multiples. I would rather have a Stifle as the second card, as it can handle situations where Claim can't. Reverent Silence is either a dead card or wins the game for you all by itself against enchantment based prison decks--for some metagames, it isn't worth running. If you see wide variety of decks though, Reverent Silence can be a serious (and often unexpected) bomb against decks which otherwise would give us fits (very parallel to Hurkyl's Recall, obviously).





peace,
4eak

I am currently running a SB splashing green it basically goes like this.
3 K grip
2 engineered explosives
4 leyline of the void
1 S&T
1 hurkyl's recall
1 extirpate
1 perish
1 Angel of Despair
1 b bog


I do not run natures claim as dragon stompy and angel stax are part of the local meta(and E truth is in the main).

Once rise comes out I will be trying 2-3 S&T additional in the board + 1 worldly and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. It seems too good not to try with the 4 mysticals already in the deck.

Also could someone recommend a 7th reanimation target? I run the standard package;
2 Iona
1 inkwell
1 empyrial
1 blazing archon
1 sphinx of the steelwind

I had tried sundeirng titan, it is great against control matchups but I found it severely lacking vs agro and combo. I have been toying with the idea of red akroma, but the lack of haste or vigilance finds it wanting. The only other thing I could think of was going back to SSS

Interessting enought no one mentioned the list suggested in this article so far.
I'm not a big fan of transforming sideboards, but this list supports this strategy even more.

And i'm still not sure about the sb plan against sb hate. I ran Stifle in my current list, but Natures Claim seems so much stronger and overall more consistent against all kind of graveyard hate, except the faerie. Does anyone have experience on this particular decision?

Yes counter top and chalice @ 1 crap all over natures claim.

I was running stifle mainboard as it buys turns vs zoo when used on fetches, and also neuters pesky crypts and relics. Unfortunately is does nothing against leyline, wheel of sun and moon, and ground seal.

My sideboard plan is:
3 Duress
3 Krosan Grip
3 Pithing Needle
2 Echoing Truth
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Tormod's Crypt

I will probably cut 1 Krosan Grip for 1 Nature's Claim and cut 1 Echoing Truth for 1 Wipe Away. My friend and I have been testing 4 Leyline of the Void for the yard hate and then 3 or 4 Null Rod instead of Pithing Needle. It shuts down the most common yard hate, doesnt interfere with yours in the mirror. It also does great things against Top, Jitte, Affinity, Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, LED. Its doing really good in testing and I may switch to that if it remains to be good.

I currently run the following sideboard since GP Madrid and I really like it.

2 nature's claim
1 krosan grip
1 show and tell
1 akroma, angel of wrath
1 extract
4 extirpate
3 xantid swarm
2 Engineered explosives.

The strength of this sideboard really fits the speed of the lotus petal version of reanimate.
I preferably run 3 nature's claim, but I cannot deny the strength and necessity that is the single krosan grip.

Still trying to make the sideboard fit somehow :P
lacking one spot, might take out 1 extirpate for a 3rd krosan grip, but then again extirpate is incredibly strong against so many decks that I prefer to run the full 4 next to the 4 mystical tutors which I prefer to use to set-up my combo, and not to find an answer.

About the SCG list, I preferably won't try to make a combo fit next to an end-turn control list.

To me, Krosan Grip is alot better than Natures Claim. When you're holding Krosan Grip, you can freely entomb for whatever you want when they have a Crypt or Relic in play. It saved my ass at the Vestal tournament in a game, killing both Counterbalance and Crypt. It gets around Counterbalance and Chalice, and is in general much stronger.

Nature's Claim is faster against decks without counters. Against things like Zoo I bring in bounce and Nature's Claim.

Here's my current board:

2x Spell Pierce
2x Extirpate
2x Krosan Grip
1x Nature's Claim
1x Coffin Purge (the Mirror has been showing up alot)
1x Duress
1x Thoughtseize (3 main, cut 1 for maindeck Stifle)
1x Show & Tell
1x Blazing Archon
1x Echoing Truth
1x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Chain of Vapor

I'm trying out 3x Stifle main over the 4th 'seize, Study, and Daze. I haven't had the opportunity to use them, but after getting Macabre'd and Gilded Drake'd out of the Top8, I wanted to give them a try.

Good Evening,

I just won a very small tournament today with reanimator. 6 players, three rounds. It was a free tournament with the winner getting their choice of a Natural Order, GP Chrome Mox, Pulse, or FTV Berserk.

I chose a pretty standard reanimator list with7 creatures, 3 of which are Iona, with a transformational painters servant grindstone combo. With 7 creatures, I kept the SNT.

First round was Dredge. Lost the coin flip. Mulled once. I Forced pitching force turn one imp. Kept brainstorm and Leviathan. A few turns passed and I was at 5. He flashed back therapy. I concede so as to hide my deck choice before he names target. I chose not to play switcharoo and fake a sideboard swap. Game two I have double force backup and lay down a turn two Empyrial Archangel. It takes a while but I do win. Game three and my opponent sides in Leyline. I lose to it turn Zero. I decide that the mystical tutor in my hand would be really useful getting bounce right now. Too bad I kept SNT in the deck. I lose.

Round two against Merfolk. I get a second turn Iona to stick with FOW and Daze. He is unhappy about Iona. I make him even less happy three turns later. I do the switch. Out 7 creatures, 3 entomb, SNT, and two exhume. In goes 3 Grindstone, two Trinket Mage, Three Dark Confidant, Four Painter's Servant, and one EE. He leads off with Tormods Crypt or Relic, I don't remember which. Score 1 for the transformational sideboard trick. I procede to win off the servant combo after I bait him with Mystical Tutor and Thoughtsieze.

Round Three against Merfolk. We trade counters and I manage to Exhume out Iona but the battle is not over due to Vial and beats. I go down to 10 and draw entomb, almost lay down a fetch and realize that I cannot reanimate Archon unless I play Underground. I lay down Underground to get to two black. It gets wasted but it doesn't matter, Blazing Archon and Iona Team up FTW. Game two I do the switch to the Servant combo. We trade counters and Confidant is in the graveyard. I exhume it and draw some extra cards while taking a few beats and dammage from Confidant. I lay down servant and EE some creatures to stop the bleeding. We play draw go with me getting two lucky flips with Confidant. I then reveal Trinket Mage and have the lands in play for the win.

Overall. I think that I had some good draws against some tougher matchups for the deck. I was one of four 2 and 1s and the only one to play the other three 2 and 1s so I win on breakers. The store owner does everyone a solid and the four 2 and 1s draft the prize that was only to be given to first place. I chose first and get a Natural Order.

-Peace

Hi all!

And someone had tested worldly tutor + Show and tell strategy in sideboard?

In the most games we can seal the reanimate combo in early turns, and ens the g1 (mostly), or simple: we fail.

In g2, ALLL the times the oponnents come with Graves Hates and, in the cas of the blue base decks, the counters of default deck.

Our side bring tools to remove or prevent the GH, and dodge some counters or removals... but, if we try a new construction of sideboard, counts with: +4 Worldly Tutor + X Show and tell + x Progenitus or the new 15/15 fly eldrazi? With this side plan, ALL the options counter the Grave Hate is unnecessary.

My idea of side is:

3 W. Tutor
3 Progenitus / 15/15 eldrazi
2 Krosan Grip
1 Show and Tell (I use 1 main deck)
1 Extract
1 Hurkyl Recall
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Wipe Away
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Faerie Macabre (a good combo with the w. Tutor)


Worldly tutor bring for the deck the surprise of not need count with the grave and more control with the targets for the S&T.

Please, comments!

Cyah,

Lammina

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Originally Posted by XiaN

Interessting enought no one mentioned the list suggested in this article so far.
I'm not a big fan of transforming sideboards, but this list supports this strategy even more.

And i'm still not sure about the sb plan against sb hate. I ran Stifle in my current list, but Natures Claim seems so much stronger and overall more consistent against all kind of graveyard hate, except the faerie. Does anyone have experience on this particular decision?

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I'm testing a deck similar to the one in that article. My overall view is that i like it, but it still needs to be tested some more.

For reference, here's my list.

1 Blazing Archon
1 Iona, shield of Emeria
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Inkwell Leviathan
4 Dark Confidant

4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Counterbalance

4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Mystical Tutor

4 Entomb
4 Exhume
3 Reanimate

1 Dryad Arbor
3 Island
2 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest

(when i find the economy to get a playset Verdant Catacombs I'll put two in here instead of 2 basics)

The difference with this list, the list's i see here is that this operate more like a regular control. I don't believe that the best way of playing this deck is comboing out asap, but establish control first and then combo out. It's still as likely to combo on turn 2 as any other list if need be. (or maybe slightly less thanks to no rituals if you need to do all parts of the combo in the same turn)

The strong sides of my take on Reanimator is that it gives the deck more late game power. Dark Confidant gives CA that the decks otherwise lacks, and Top is just insane and should be banned.

You should really include at least a singleton careful study in the list. Having your beaters stuck in your hand = no good. If you have Study, you can at least tutor for it.

Dryad Arbor? What the hell.

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Originally Posted by Tinefol

You should really include at least a singleton careful study in the list. Having your beaters stuck in your hand = no good. If you have Study, you can at least tutor for it.

Dryad Arbor? What the hell.

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Well, i only play 4 creatures that I want to reanimate, so I have cut the S&T plan, and also the study.

Dryad Arbor is the nuts when you play against landstill and the likes who run Inocent blood and Swords to Plowshares. Fetch for Dryad and sac instead of Inkwell or Iona.

There's no chance in the world that a version like that wins from pure aggro-decks like zoo or even gets close to beating merfolk.

Dark confidant will take you down horribly when you don't have an SDT to protect you. ( 4-9drops, 4-5drops and even wanting to cast reanimate?)
If you really want this list to work, stop using reanimate since it'll kill you with that confidant. You don't want to draw dead cards or spend every card you have on losing life. Use animate dead if you want to make a control list.
There is no 3 or 4-drop at all in the list to protect the counterbalance from Krosan grip, trygon predator, reverent silence, maelstrom pulse.
You could say you run counters, but there are a lot of other things you wish to counter against those decks.
The only deck I can imagine this being stronger against is ANT/NLS/Belcher/Dreadstill/

wait.. those are good match-ups already and dreadstill is dead already.
Counterbalance makes the few match-ups better where normal reanimate is already strong against.

Practical Joke: Well, I stated that I'm testing this list, that it need more testing. I have _never_ claimed the list to be superior to the standard list people play, it's another take on the strategy. I have yet to lose a match against Zoo, but i have only played like ~5 matches or so against it so I wont claim it to be valid data.

Yes, there are 8 cards that i don't want to flip with Dark Confidant. But what are the chance of that happening? ~15% if i haven't drawn any of the cards i don't want to flip before, and haven't played brainstorm or Top. That's a chance I'm willing to take.

I started of with the list David Fallgren piloted to place #33 in Madrid (posted in SCG's forum as a response to the article thats linked above). From that list i have cut Thoughtsieze, Show and Tell and 1 Daze in order to fit in 4 BoB and 1 more of Sensei's Divining Top and 1 more Counterbalance.

Looking at the list, exhume is the main card I want to use in order to reanimate.

I wont build a Reanimator thats opted to play against Merfolk, Zoo or Goblins. Decks that's pretty much non-existent in my meta. This list's main focus is play in a meta that have lots of combo and some control/aggro-control.

When i play with this list i often need to pick what way I want to play. Either i go for the control route, and focus on landing CB/top an BoB or to combo off asap. I play this deck more or less the same way I played Dreadstill before. I pick my role in the game. And this list ain't equally good to CB/top when it comes to playing the control role, nor equally good at comboing off as regular reanimator or ANT. But I have more options to chose.

With all that said, i only posted to list as a reference to my post. Not trying to convince anybody that its the optimal list, and right now i have named the deck "Nxt Lvl Reanimator v 0.19". I consider my testing to be in somewhat of a alpha/beta stage.

If you're worried about having an alternate creature to sacrifice to Innocent Blood/Diabolic Edict, why are you running Dryad Arbor over something like Putrid Imp, which at least helps push you towards your goal of reanimating a giant threat?

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

If you're worried about having an alternate creature to sacrifice to Innocent Blood/Diabolic Edict, why are you running Dryad Arbor over something like Putrid Imp, which at least helps push you towards your goal of reanimating a giant threat?

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Cause Arbor can be fetched when you need, and having just 1 in the deck does make it less likely to draw it when you don't need it, but the biggest reason is probably that i don't need to play it. It's nice to have the option when it occures, and it's nice not to play with sub-optimal cards in a to big extent.

Arbor takes a slot amongst the lands, give me the option to play EE on 3 if need be, where Putrid would take a place amongst my spells, and don't help me in the main goal to reanimate a big dude. I have cut the show and tell, cause it's not likely enough to have a big dude in hand (only playing 4 reanimate targets). The occasions where i need to discard a dude in order to reanimate it haven't occured to many times in my testing so far, (not saying it haven't thou, cause it have but its rare).