[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

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Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

Extirpate is insane in the mirror (aka top-deck lottery) way better than Crypt (which shuts down just one route), I also don't feel comfortable with less than 2 probes, the card is to good, speeds you up and eases the combo turn, also -1 basic rather than fetchland, that doesn't make sense...

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This was based on Inaki's guide from his tournament report. Extirpate requires you to spend a discard spell to be "ZOMG topdeck lottery", hence 2 cards spent to remove (Infernal Tutor, Cabal Ritual, LED, etc). It's a dead card when you're trying to combo off earlier too - much like Crypt. However, it's free storm and no life loss from Ad Nauseum when you do manage to fire it off. Seems like the consequences of making Extirpate work are outweighed by Crypt's in the matchup, and also good vs Dredge/Reanimator.

I don't disagree with boarding out basics - I did that against Belcher since I don't expect to need to get 3 lands in play ever. Maybe -1 land instead of "fetchland"

Are there any versions of this deck that are currently foregoing the Gitaxian Probe and Cabal Therapy package for Pre-Ordain and Thoughtseize instead? I really dislike both the Burning Wish and Grim Tutor versions of this deck because they are really sub-par threats in comparison to Infernal Tutor, so can the deck just stand on Infernal Tutor and an enlarged cantrip package to find it?

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

Are there any versions of this deck that are currently foregoing the Gitaxian Probe and Cabal Therapy package for Pre-Ordain and Thoughtseize instead? I really dislike both the Burning Wish and Grim Tutor versions of this deck because they are really sub-par threats in comparison to Infernal Tutor, so can the deck just stand on Infernal Tutor and an enlarged cantrip package to find it?

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It would be slower due to the higher cantrip count. The manabase is more solid too, with 4 basics and only 2 Useas. This sounds something similar to what was floating around just after Mystical got banned, so look for lists around August 2010.

If you play the cantrip heavy builds, you'll get locked out by counterbalance before you can win.

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

Are there any versions of this deck that are currently foregoing the Gitaxian Probe and Cabal Therapy package for Pre-Ordain and Thoughtseize instead? I really dislike both the Burning Wish and Grim Tutor versions of this deck because they are really sub-par threats in comparison to Infernal Tutor, so can the deck just stand on Infernal Tutor and an enlarged cantrip package to find it?

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ari's old primer addresses that issue quite well. and a lot of the grim tutor builds have kind of moved back to this style of build but PiF instead of IGG since it is about 70% of the time better. also with only IT you leave yourself cold to extraction

http://www.gatheringmagic.com/legacy-storm-primer/

you kind of need to have 5-6 tutors to reliably find one in a timely matter. i personally think 6 is fine, and sometimes will board out the 6th grim to board in some answers in the slower match ups and sometimes where i know the life on the loop may matter.

This is the list i am currently on. I played it at a local event for some underground seas. lost to junk because he had turn one duress > extraction in g1, almost got there still but took some bad lines, also drew awful, drew all my engines and lands forever. a ponder flipped up 3 rainforest at one point, I showed my opponent and told him it was the worst ponder ever, but i guess it could have been a brainstorm. stole a game from counterbalance i punted on my window in g1 i got game 2 and game 3 he blind flipped a 4 to my reverent silence on turn 2 (supreme verdict) and then blind flipped a top to my next turn duress. almost got there still. and lost to a bug player. i played relatively poorly all day due to most likely having a fever and being congested and sick as all hell and kind of hungover. don't drink while your sick kids.


over all i liked it. the dreads were never needed. I never missed AN except for maybe against the CB player, but i think i like abrupt decay better, hopefully CB will get pushed out of the metagame soon with bug being a thing. also beating bad CB players is pretty easy, they are trigger happy with flipping top. Xantid Swarm is AMAZING! he always got forced but if he ever stuck i pretty much win the game on the spot. going forward I am -4 dread of night + 2 karakas +1 swarm and then one mystery spot. I am ok with boarding in 7-8+ cards for one horrible match up. everything else is easy. maybe an IGG. need to work on the board some more and the boarding plan to figure how bad i want all the anti CB hate and if i can fit it all in (not all the swarms come in).


4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Grim Tutor
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Past in Flames
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony

2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:

4 Abrupt Decay
1 Bayou
2 Chain of Vapor
4 dread of night
1 Reverent Silence
3 Xantid Swarm

I can echo that Xantid is amazing. Dreads were also useless (since no one plays Maverick anymore) 2 Virtue's Ruin would be better use of those slots if there's a worry. I want to put IGG back into the board against midrangey non-counter decks, as partial Mind Twist is still useful in shutting them down. It also gives us something to IT for in the early turns when we can only generate 4 mana post-IT -- IT + LED + ritual, mind twist them, rebuy those 3 cards to get another shot for Ad Nauseam.

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Originally Posted by Koby

I can echo that Xantid is amazing. Dreads were also useless (since no one plays Maverick anymore) 2 Virtue's Ruin would be better use of those slots if there's a worry. I want to put IGG back into the board against midrangey non-counter decks, as partial Mind Twist is still useful in shutting them down. It also gives us something to IT for in the early turns when we can only generate 4 mana post-IT -- IT + LED + ritual, mind twist them, rebuy those 3 cards to get another shot for Ad Nauseam.

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And playing Mind Twist will make you lose either the game or the match...it still is banned in Legacy.

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Originally Posted by dune2k

And playing Mind Twist will make you lose either the game or the match...it still is banned in Legacy.

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WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Re-read the quote.

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Originally Posted by Koby

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Re-read the quote.

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Woops, skipped the "partial"... ;)
Reading the post again: thanks for that usage of IGG. :)

Having problems convincing myself this version of storm is worthwhile. I usually combo off using PiF, and that just got harder with all the Deathrites running around. And thanks to NoVa, hymn will probably be on the uptick. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Tammit67

Having problems convincing myself this version of storm is worthwhile. I usually combo off using PiF, and that just got harder with all the Deathrites running around. And thanks to NoVa, hymn will probably be on the uptick. Thoughts?

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I agree, and have put together TES instead for now. Being faster is one way to ignore the shift to BUG. And until the metagame adopts EE more readily, EtW is a better path to beating them.

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Originally Posted by Tammit67

Having problems convincing myself this version of storm is worthwhile. I usually combo off using PiF, and that just got harder with all the Deathrites running around. And thanks to NoVa, hymn will probably be on the uptick. Thoughts?

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Vs BUG the plan really depends on his first drop ( delver or deathrites ).

ETW is always a usefull plan.

vs no race Ad nauseam is awesome.
vs race you can go off with PiF/tutor chain (please pay attenction to surgical/extirpate)/natural tendrils.

I really like dark confidant from SB in this metagame.
Really dislike cantrips ANT, and think that Burning wish is the way. Until EE is not on some maindeck, ETW on G1 can wins alone so much games.

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Originally Posted by Ricca84

Vs BUG the plan really depends on his first drop ( delver or deathrites ).

ETW is always a usefull plan.

vs no race Ad nauseam is awesome.
vs race you can go off with PiF/tutor chain (please pay attenction to surgical/extirpate)/natural tendrils.

I really like dark confidant from SB in this metagame.
Really dislike cantrips ANT, and think that Burning wish is the way. Until EE is not on some maindeck, ETW on G1 can wins alone so much games.

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The problem with Burning Wish is that it exposes the manabase to Wasteland vs aggro-control, regardless tho' I think Ad Nauseam(s) have to remain in the MD because Deathrite Shaman counters Past in Flames and BUG control decks are playing Pernicious Deads and/or Engineered Explosives quite heavily.

Right now, I'm debating whether or not I want 2 Grim Tutors or 2 Ad Nauseam and 1 Empty the Warrens in the deck, where it's better to draw your threats and cast them directly instead of drawing an inefficent tutor for your threats.

I actually find it kind of odd people are saying Pre-Ordain based decks lose to Counterbalance, I actually find Miracles lands Counterbalance more against the Gitaxian Probe version because you usually sand bag Cabal Therpay instead of casting it aggressively like Thoughtseize. You may win a little slower by having a reduced total number of threats, but its offset by pretty much always disruptiong them as soon as possible

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Originally Posted by Ricca84
I really like dark confidant from SB in this metagame.

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I agree that if you're having trouble with BUG, Dark Confidant in the board is quite good -- pretty often, their only answers in the entire 75 will be Abrupt Decay, which isn't a terribly efficient way of killing it anyway. I don't particularly like going for Goblins against them in any games...it seems like every single version runs either Deed or Explosives in the 75, there's no reason to turn on an otherwise pretty bad card against us.

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Originally Posted by Tammit67
Having problems convincing myself this version of storm is worthwhile. I usually combo off using PiF, and that just got harder with all the Deathrites running around. And thanks to NoVa, hymn will probably be on the uptick. Thoughts?

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I haven't actually had that much trouble with BUG -- it's probably slightly unfavorable preboard, depending on the version, but I think that can be handled after SB. Deathrite is a little bit annoying, but it's also a little awkward for them. If they play it early, it's not aggressive at all, so they're in an awkward place where they have to leave up B every turn, and we have pretty much infinite time to combo because they're stone raining themselves and played a 1/2 on turn 1. If they play it later, it takes a really long time to get going, and it's not that hard to keep the graveyard more stocked than he can keep up with. That said...Turn 1 Deathrite into T2 Liliana is tough to beat.

I tried the Preordain/Thoughtseize version instead of the Probe/Therapy one for a little while, and I didn't particularly like it, mostly because it slows down Cabal Ritual by quite a bit. Typically you can go off with this deck when you can flash back a thresholded C-Rit, and no Probe often makes that take an extra turn.

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Originally Posted by Koby

I agree, and have put together TES instead for now. Being faster is one way to ignore the shift to BUG. And until the metagame adopts EE more readily, EtW is a better path to beating them.

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GJ man...rough beat on the flusterstorm.

grats koby!

Thanks guys, but I didn'tplay Ad Nauseam Tendrils. I played The Epic Storm D:

there is a difference? :rolleyes:

Absolutely. But the funny thing is that with the new printings, the one called TES became the most Ad Nauseam centric based version, and the one called Ad Nauseam tendrils is now more centered on Past in Flames.