List of Compact Combos

[Iranon]

I think it would be quite useful to make a list of compact combos that you can build around or that you could throw into a variety of decks.
I'm ignoring combos that require more than 15 slots or extreme design restrictions (which rules out most open-ended engines, like the ones used in typical Storm decks).

The numbers behind the combos stand for cards/mana/chaff. The first refers to the number of specific cards you need in hand, the second to the total amount of mana required, the third to the number of additional useless cards you need in the deck to make the whole thing work.

It would be nice if someone could expand this with playable combos, preferably with a few short pointers on how they work. If their numbers are dominated by something already on the list, I would appreciate a short summary of their advantages if those aren't obvious.




Doomsday: 1/6/5

Play Doomsday and assemble a winning stack. A typical one would be Predict, Grapeshot, Conjurer's Bauble, Lion's Eye Diamond, Second Sunrise; to win outright in one turn, we also need a cantrip, cycler or something else of the sort.
The plan is to Predict the Grapeshot, play the artifacts, sacrifice the Bauble targeting nothing and crack the LED in response for white mana. You can now return the artifacts an arbitary number of times, then break the loop by cracking the LED for red and sacrifice the Bauble for Grapeshot.
There are other Doomsday stacks, but to my knowledge 3 additional mana and 5 useless cards is as good as it gets and I prefer one that doesn't die to creature removal.



Tooth and Nail: 1/9/2

Play Tooth and Nail, put Kiki-Jiki and Pestermite or Sky Hussar into Play. Copy the flier an infinite number of times and swing for the win. Rather simple, but requires a big chunk of mana to be paid in one go.



Full English Breakfast: 1/9/3

The combo works by abusing synergy between Survival of the Fittest and Volrath's Shapeshifter, typically by turning it into an Akroma, Angel of Wrath (to attack immediately), Cephalid Inkshrouder (to make it unblockable and untargetable) and Phage the Untouchable (to make an opponent snuff it as soon as they take damage) in the same turn.
Survival-based combos can often reduce effective mana costs by tutoring up their own acceleration, in this case probably Palinchron (to be on top of the graveyard when Volrath's Shapeshifter enters play).



Saffi Survival: 1/9/3

Survival of the Fittest puts Saffi Eriksdotter and Caller of the Claw into the graveyard while fetching Crypt Champion. Crypt Champion and Saffi set up a loop which you end with Caller, giving you an arbitrary number of bears. While the pieces aren't individually strong, they aren't as unwieldy as the classic Full English Breakfast combo.



Survival/Sky Hussar/Kiki-Jiki: 1/10/3

The combo is rather straightforward: Fetch a Karmic Guide with Survival of the Fittest while depositing Kiki-Jiki and Sky Hussar or Pestermite in the graveyard. Play it returning Kiki, copy the Guide returning Sky Hussar, copy the Sky Hussar an arbitrary number of times and attack. Strictly speaking, the Karmic Guide isn't necessary but eases the mana and colour requirements.
On the upside, this is as small as it gets without extreme limitations to deck design (e.g. 2-Land-Belcher) and the 'chaff' is actually pretty decent for the high end of a creature-based deck, albeit a little colour intensive. As with all Survival-based combos, we can grab acceleration as we go along, in this case probably Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
On the downside, the combo is a bit on the fragile side.



Cephalid Breakfast: 2/3/5

This combo requires a Cephalid Illusionist and something to target it for free, such as a Nomads En-Kor. From then on, we mill ourselves until we can flashback Dread Return for either a Karmic Guide returning Kiki-Jiki and Sky Hussar or a Tarmogoyf-fueled Sutured Ghoul with Dragon Breath. Narcomoeba and Cabal Therapy ensure that we can do this even if we drew something we'd rather have in the yard. Please note that I didn't count Tarmogoyfs and Cabal Therapies under the 'chaff' needed as they are bloody fine cards in their own right and assumed 3 Narcomoebae. If you don't want Tarmogoyfs in your deck, 2 Phyrexian Dreadnoughts (Stifle targets?) or a single Lord of Extinction works as well, the latter probably being chaff.
To my knowlege, this is currently the cheapest way to kill someone outright with 2 cards, but it requires running a fairly large amount of junk.



Skill borrower / Worldly Tutor: 2/4/1

With Skill Borrower active, we play Worldly Tutor for Kiki-JikI. Since the Skill Borrower itself isn't legendary it can copy itself an arbitrary number of times. If you do this at the opponent's end step, you can swing for lethal in your turn. Cheap and easy to set up, this combo is also disturbingly fragile so some backup and preferably Haste would be welcome.



Aluren: 2/4/3

Under Aluren, playing an Imperial Recruiter for free allows us to fetch Man-o'-War or Dream Stalker, bouncing it. We play the Recruiter again for Cavern Harpy (bouncing the bouncer) and can now enter a loop fetching and bouncing new creatures. Parasitic Strix makes this sustainable and provides the kill.
While Aluren is neither terribly fast (4 mana are needed in one go) nor ultra-compact, it sets up an efficient engine that provides a lot fo flexibility, allowing us to play around many things at the expense of additional creature slots that tend to be weak on their own. There are many tricks and pitfalls to the combo, and it might be a good way to leverage a difference in skill level.



Buried Alive/Reanimate: 2/4/3

Yet another way to attack with infinite Sky Hussars/Pestermites, again brought into play by Karmic Guide. Buried Alive gets them in the yard, Reanimate gets Karmic Guide into play for cheap. Reanimating Necrotic Ooze with Phyrexian Devourer and Triskelion in the graveyard is a possibly more robust alternative. There is a lot of redundancy available in reanimation spells.



Helm of Obedience/Leyline of the Void: 2/5/0

This one is very interesting in a metagame heavily infested with graveyard-dependent decks. If cards are exiled instead of milled when Helm of Obedience works its magic, we remove their entire library. Samurai of the Pale Curtain works as an alternative to Leyline that doesn't need to be in hand to start out with, but that drives the cost up to 7.



Mesmeric Orb / Basalt Monolith: 2/5/5

Mesmeric Orb and Basalt Monolith allow you to mill your entire library similar to the Cephalid Breakfast combo, with the same considerations of how to translate this into a win. Not involving creatures seemingly makes it more resilent, but more expensive and you can't rely on Aether Vial.



Stuffy Doll/Guilty Conscience: 2/6/0

Another efficient 2-card combo with individually weak pieces... at least both Stuffy Doll and Guilty Conscience are both fetchable with Enlightened Tutor.



Painter's Servant/Grindstone: 2/6/0

This is currently a more attractive option to the one above, as mana can be paid in chunks and it's easier to build an efficient shell around it... so much it works thrown into fairly random decks, but is also a decent starting point. With Painter's Servant in play, all cards in hand are the colour of your choice so Grindstone will deck your opponent. As with all library kills, it will only win next turn unless you also have a way to make them draw.



Hive Mind / any Pact: 2/6/0

This isn't 100% reliable as a 2-card combo and 6 mana need to be paid at once so this is probably not competitive. The idea is to force an opponent to copy one or more of the Pact series of spells from Future Sight like Pact of the Titan thanks to Hive Mind. This forces a mana payment in their upkeep to avoid losing the game, before we have to do the same.



Academy Rector / Diabolic Intent: 2/6/2*

This can fetch the above for the same convertedl mana cost, but allows us to split it up. It can also fetch something less conditional albeit more expensive, like Near-Death Experience and something that lets us control our life total, like Plunge into Darkness or Blood Celebrant.



Angel's Grace / Ad Nauseam: 2/6/?

Ad Nauseam causes life loss, it is not a cost. Ergo, with Angel's Grace in effect you can draw your entire deck without consideration for your life total. This should allow you to kill your opponent somehow - Storm would be an obvious option but decks built around the mechanic don't usually need Angel's Grace.



Swans of Bryn Argoll / Chain of Plasma: 2/6/?

Another way to draw your deck for 6 mana, with both cards being somewhat useful outside a dedicated combo shell. You target the Swans of Bryn Argoll with the Chain of Plasma, then discard a card to copy the Chain. If you have the Swans but not the chain, you can turn Lightning Bolts into Ancestral Recalls.



Trix: 2/7/0

Donate an Illusions of Grandeur and have them lose 20 life once they can't pay the upkeep any more.
Delightfully clean and simple, this doesn't care about creature or graveyard removal. On the down side, at least 5 mana have to be paid in one go, life gain needs to be considered and it doesn't kill outright... some decks can cheerfully burn through 40 life in time, others can use the delay to find a Stifle.



Frenetic Efreet / Chance Encounter: 2/7/0

Frenetic Efreet allows you to flip an arbitrary number of coins, Chance Encounter allows you to win on your next upkeep. I suppose you make your own luck.



Near-Death Experience / Plunge into Darkness: 2/7/0

Anything that lets us control our life total works with Near-Death Experience, and if we can stall for a turn Blood Celebrant allows us to do this for 6 mana. More interestingly, Plunge into Darkness and Lim-Dul's Vault work as companions and powerful tutors are always welcome.



Pestermite / Splinter Twin: 2/7/0

Enchanted by Splinter Twin, Pestermite can be tapped to add a hasty copy of itself that untaps the original when it comes into play. Repeat ad nauseam, attack.



Academy Rector / Kaervek's Spite: 2/7/1

With Academy Rector in play, cast Kaervek's Spite. The dying Rector fetches Barren Glory, making you win in your next upkeep. With style.



Kiki-Jiki/Pestermite: 2/8/0

Kiki-Jiki and Pestermite are potential finishers in many more efficient combos, but hardcasting is also an option. The cards might even be moderately useful on their own; Kiki is somewhat decent in most creature-based decks and Pestermite can be a nasty surprise to the opponent in many situations. If you have many mana critters, Sky Hussar can be effectively cheaper than Pestermite, if you have many cheap blue or white creatures it can become a decent draw engine.



Panoptic Mirror / Savor the Moment: 2/8/?

Panoptic Mirror with an imprinted Savor the moment allows you to take as many turns you want. While you don't get untap steps, drawing your library and playing the lands still in it should give you more than enough resources to win with.



Severance Belcher: 2/9/0

Without land, a Goblin Charbelcher activation deals damage equal to the number of cards in your library, which should usually be enough. Mana Severance enables this.
Another less efficient alternative to Trix, without the obvious drawbacks and an at least somewhat useful card in Goblin Charbelcher.



Pandemonium / Saproling Burst: 2/9/0

Another very straightforward combo: You use up the Saproling Burst immediately, having Pandemonium cause 21 damage to your opponent.

[technogeek5000]

Umm Counterbalance and Sensei's divining top is strong from what i hear. :rolleyes:

2/3/nadda

[thefreakaccident]

He means a combo- as in a combination of cards that win the game...

[Obfuscate Freely]

Time Vault/Mizzium Transreliquat: 2/8/0
Time Vault/Rings of Brighthearth: 2/8/0

These are both comparable to Trix, as they are extremely compact (although you do have to have an actual win condition somewhere in your 60). As with Trix, you pay for this compactness with a higher cost in mana, but these are about as resilient as Severance/Belcher (and one mana cheaper), and the fact that both of these combos involve Time Vault makes for interesting design possibilities.

Unfortunately, I think that Legacy really favors mana-efficient win conditions over compact ones, which is why Cephalid Breakfast is the only combo in your list that can be found in a competitive deck right now.

[iOWN]

Buried Alive/Reanimate: 2/4/3

Just an alternative Survival/Kiki/Hussar (the chaff being Kiki-Jiki, Karmic Guide, and Sky Hussar), but uses one more card and costs three less mana. You can also use Sutured Ghoul/Dreadnought/Dreadnought which is a bit less fragile. In either case, the deck construction is still somewhat closed (as it's 11 cards at minimum) but you can still do some interesing things with it.

Edit - But of course, for Ghoul you need Shallow Grave or Corpse Dance instead, making it 5-6 mana.

[Pinder]

There's also Sensei Sensei:

SDT/SDT/Helm of Awakening/Storm card edit - it's 4/3/0

I'm not sure if I got the numbers quite right, but I didn't count SDT as part of the cards you need in hand or the chaff, because it's damn useful in its own right with Counterbalance or just to keep card quality up. The chaff here is the Helm and the Storm card (Brainfreeze most likely, but the rest of the combo is colorless so you can fit it in with Dragonstorm/Tendrils/what have you), which are also the cards you need in hand.

edit - Although if you actually want to see Helm or your storm card, the chaff could concievably be 8.

[Obfuscate Freely]

There's also Sensei Sensei:

SDT/SDT/Helm of Awakening/Storm card 2/4/2

I'm not sure if I got the numbers quite right, but I didn't count SDT as part of the cards you need in hand or the chaff...
lol wut? SDT counts as one of the cards you need for the combo to work, ...because you need it for the combo to work. That makes this a four-card combo, which is exactly why it sucks.

For the sake of completeness, the number breakdown should be 4/2/0
You need Top/Top/Helm/storm card to go off, two mana to play the Helm, and nothing else needs to be in the deck to win. So, this combo is extremely cheap, mana-wise, and as compact as possible when three unique cards are involved. However, as I said, it's killed by the fact that you need a total of four cards in hand or in play for it to work.

EDIT: Pinder corrected me, since I forgot about casting Brainfreeze. The number breakdown should actually be 4/3/0.

[Pinder]

Ah, I see now. I broke it down completely wrong. I thought chaff here meant 'cards that did nothing for the deck outside of the combo', not 'cards that need to be in the library (or graveyard, or otherwise not in your hand) to combo.'

Either way though, you need 2 mana for Helm and an extra mana for Brainfreeze. So it's probably closer to 4/3/0.

But I contend that Top isn't really an issue here, even though you need 2 of them. You want one of them, regardless of the fact that it's part of the combo, because you can set up CounterTop to stall while you use it to find other pieces of the combo. I suppose once you have one on the table you need to find another before you can combo, but even then you really only need 3 cards in hand, because one will already be on the table. So, 3/3/0?

[Obfuscate Freely]

Either way though, you need 2 mana for Helm and an extra mana for Brainfreeze. So it's probably closer to 4/3/0.
Whoops. You're right. Edited.


But I contend that Top isn't really an issue here, even though you need 2 of them. You want one of them, regardless of the fact that it's part of the combo, because you can set up CounterTop to stall while you use it to find other pieces of the combo. I suppose once you have one on the table you need to find another before you can combo, but even then you really only need 3 cards in hand, because one will already be on the table. So, 3/3/0?
No, you really have to count both Tops, because you need both of them for the combo to function. You can't say that's irrelevant because you "want" a Top for other reasons. It isn't as if that helps you find, resolve, or protect one.

Breaking a combo down into three numbers is obviously going to present an incomplete description. Beyond the "4/3/0," You might be able to argue that this combo is better than other four-card combos because Top is a good card on its own. But that doesn't make it any less of a four-card combo.

[Pinder]

I suppose for the purpose of hard numbers, you're right, in the same way that Survival is an amazing card all on its own, but you still need one for some of the combos listed above, and so it's still in the numbers.

[jamest]

Aluren / Imperial Recruiter: 2/4/4

Chaff is Cavern Harpy, bounce (ie Manowar), life gain (ie Spike Feeder), and kill (ie Ghitu Slinger).
EDIT: Recruiter grabs Manowar, bounce Recruiter, Recruiter grabs Harpy, bounce Manowar, bounce Recruiter, repeat. This loop lets you grab and re-bounce any 3cc creature in your deck. Re-bounce Feeder for infinite life to help pay for Harpy's bounce cost. Re-bounce Slinger to win. There are other choices for bounce and kill like Dream Stalker and Etched Oracle (this requires Wall of Roots to generate infinite mana).
There are cheaper combos than this, but this combo doesn't depend on the graveyard.

[emidln]

Gifts Ungiven

Cheapest targets are Dark Ritual (or Cabal Ritual which makes the combo cheaper, but adds Threshold as a requirement), Recoup, Reanimate, Buried Alive. Requires 9URRB to combo on the same turn in the worst case scenario. Incorporates Reanimate + Buried Alive and Kiki Jiki/Sky Hussar/Karmic Guide.

1/13/7*

*Kiki Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Sky Hussar, Karmic Guide, Recoup, Dark Ritual, Reanimate, Buried Alive are all chaff. It could be argued that this number is 6 since Dark Ritual is genuinely useful to cast Gifts Ungiven, reduce the mana cost of the combo, or to stall with.

[No_Life_No_Future]

Here is something i thought of but really could never break.

Intuition for:

Academy Ruins
Life from the Loam
Mindslaver

i guess its not that amazing.

[Maveric78f]

In addition to that, I would suggest to write down the disruptability of the combo.
- Grave dependency (disruptable by planar void/leyline of the void/tormod's crypt) (half are)
- Needleability (a lot are)
- Stiflabitiliy (most are)
- Forceability (all are I think)
- Wastelandability (few are)
- Swordsability (half are)
- Disenchantability (half are)
- Chaliceability (most are)

In combos, peeble is also not that bad: 0CC creature, sacrifice outlet that can win the game when repeated (goblin bombardment is the best), enduring renewal. 3/6/0 (grave:yes, needle: not really if played with several sac outlets, stifle: not if 2 creatures in hand, yes if only 1, force: yes, wastelands: no, swords: no, disenchant: yes, chalice: yes)
Salvager combo: Auriok Salvager, LED, either a card that wins the game when infinite mana, or a 1CC artifact that makes your draw. 3/4/0 (grave:yes, needle: yes, stifle: no, force: yes, wastelands: no, swords: yes, disenchant: no, chalice: yes)

[Amber VII]

I'm not sure if this is considered Legacy playable, but:

Dark Depths+Aether Snap: 2/5/0

The combo is very similar to Trix in that it won't win you the game outright, but it will give you a 20/20 flying, indestructible creature. The mana investment is roughly the same, though you can Dark Ritual into Aether Snap. It's very disruptable, but the investment is low.

Grave dependency: No
Needleability: No
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: Yes
Swordsability: Yes
Disenchantability: No
Chaliceability: No

[Tacosnape]

It's worth noting that Doomsday can actually pretty easily be 1/5/5 instead of 1/6/5. If you have Predict, Conjurer's Bauble, or Lion's Eye Diamond in your hand, then you can easily replace its slot with Chrome Mox or Lotus Petal in your stack. While technically this is still 1/6/5, the fact the combo can occasionally fetch itself the mana to go off makes it virtually count for less.

This is highly relevant in cases where you want to cast a first turn Dark Ritual / Doomsday and be able to win the next turn.

[deadlock]

Time Vault/Mizzium Transreliquat: 2/8/0
Time Vault/Rings of Brighthearth: 2/8/0

This looks interesting together with Reconstruction or Argivian Restoration as a Gifts Pile, i'll try that.

Maybe a little slow though, like you said.

[Iranon]

Wow, a lot of excellent feedback... thanks especially for doing my thinking for me and using the same format.
I'm aware it isn't perfect. The 'chaff' number doesn't take into account whether the combo pieces we need in hand are useful on their own right, and they do range from dead-ish to awesome. I tried to keep it as simple as possible, to let people rule some out as too slot-hungry or mana-hungry. If I started to comment on all the traits on Maveric78f's list I'd be tempted to also include things like alternate routes in the face of a Meddling Mage, colour intensity, Extractability, Froglockability, Jötungruntability, Truebelievability, Gaddockteegability and other brain-imploding words. This is something far beyond the scope I had in mind and I planned to leave that to each deckbuilder... hopefully, they know what traits they are looking for.

Not all of these have to be capable of powering a Deck-to-Beat; throwing a compact combo into a deck that can support it easily might net free wins simply through the rogue factor and in very defined/small metagames there might be the option of dodging the most common hate while maindecking 20 hate cards yourself.

***

My brain tries very hard to forget that Time Vault exists, and was mostly successful before the reminder. That certainly deserves a spot in the list, as do Aluren and Buried Alive. Many thanks to iOWN, Obfuscate Freely and jamest.

I'm reluctant to include combos with more than 2 primary cards, unless I can see a very compelling reason. As a comparison, the cheapest IGG loop would come down as 3/2/3, and that's generally used in all-engine decks rather than as a compact combo.
Likewise, a 3*4 configuration only saves one slot compared to Cephalid Breakfast and getting 3 cards in hand at once is a lot trickier. Unless I'm very mistaken, a good Sensei, Sensei implementation (yes, the minimum would be a 4/3/0) would take up far too many slots to count as a compact combo.

***

@ Emidlin: Personally, I'd see that as an (expensive) way to fetch the real combo rather than a 1-card-combo... at least in Legacy. With Survival, I can at least provide my own acceleration to cut the 'effective' cost down to 7-ish. We're fast approaching the regions of Door to Nothingness (1/15/0) or Kaervek's Torch (1/21/0 with a considerable benefit).

***

@ Tacosnape: Duly noted, and relevant indeed. I tried to make as few assumptions as possible though, and considering we don't run multiples that alternative would be more along the lines of a 2/5/4... if multiple avenues with different values exist, I'll just write down the one I consider most impressive. Again, I can't be 100% fair without giving a ridiculous amount of details.

[TheLion]

Actually I think, in FEB Cephalid Inkshrouder is not necessary. Because IF the opponent had removal, he could still play it in response for discarding phage. And if he has no removal, the Inkshrouder's ability (untargetable) does not matter. The unblockable thing does not matter too, since Akroma ALWAYS makes at least 1 (trample) damage to opponent, which will trigger Phage's ability. I cant image a situation, when the opponent has a untapped 6/6 flying blocker on turn 4 (except maybe against Reanimator or Mystic Enforcer).
At least I play no Inkshrouder, and I'm quite happy with it.

Maybe we should add the Savalgers Combo?
But this may not be a compact combo?

[georgjorge]

Speaking of Full English Breakfast, the combo can be made 1/7/4 instead of 1/9/3, which I think is the better option, just by adding in a Palinchron which you discard to fetch Shapeshifter and cast it (1G for Survival, GG for activations, 1UU for Shapeshifter). You then untap your lands and can play the rest of the combo "for free".

I don't know if you're only looking for combos that win right then and there, but otherwise you could include Enlightened Tutor (for Draco)/Erratic Explosion, which is a 2/4/1 combo dealing sixteen damage.

[TheLion]

Usually you play FEB like this (at least I do): Play Survival (1G), discard random creature (G), search Squee, discard Squee (G), search Akroma, discard (G) her for Shapeshifter. Wait a turn, get Squee back, play Shapeshifter (1UU), attack, discard Squee (G) for Phage, discard Phage (G).
So you have actually 10 mana. Getting Squee first, is most often the best option, even in FEB, imo.
Playing Palinchron as an additional "chuff" card, seems not the best option. Usually you have enough mana. I'd rather play Quirion Ranger which has synergies with Birds and is not a dead card else.

[Illissius]

Good idea. I used to keep a list of these, but it got lost. Here's what I can think of.

Fireball: 1/21/0

Door to Nothingness: 1/15/0

Tooth and Nail: 1/9/2

Enduring Ideal: 1/7/~5

Saffi Survival: 1/9+1/3+1 (Saffi+Caller+Crypt Champion, +1 is Anger)

PandeBurst: 2/9/0

Panoptic Mirror+Time Warp: 2/10/0

Academy Slaver: 2/13/0

Hulk Sneak/Breach: 2/5/3

Powered Monolith: 3/5+/0

Hulk Footsteps/Necro: 3/3+/3

Palinchron: 3/12/0 (6 lands + Flare/Beat/Tide/whatever)


For the record,

Hulk Flash: 2/2/3

That's sort of like the ideal.

[emidln]

@ Emidlin: Personally, I'd see that as an (expensive) way to fetch the real combo rather than a 1-card-combo... at least in Legacy. With Survival, I can at least provide my own acceleration to cut the 'effective' cost down to 7-ish. We're fast approaching the regions of Door to Nothingness (1/15/0) or Kaervek's Torch (1/21/0 with a considerable benefit).

Gifts can do it on 3-4 lands pretty easily if you're playing at least 5 black rituals. This lets you use Dark Ritual to cast Gifts/power into the combo and brings your total mana cost somewhere in the 8-10 range, and that's including Gifts, which you'll likely be resolving on an end step, bringing your mana down to below that of Mizzium/Vault, Severance/Belcher, or Trix. The upside to Gifts is that the mana cost is usually split and can be turned around to protect your actual win if you have other ways to find your Reanimate/Buried Alive combo by finding 4 disruption spells. Usually when I build Gifts, it includes Gifts Ungiven and Lim-dul's Vault so I can always find my Gifts, although LDV is sometimes used to directly find one half of the combo saving Gifts for disruption spells or force fodder. In any event casting Gifts is going to allow you to win immediately for a reasonable amount of mana for a combo-control deck (on 3-6 lands) similar in fashion to Doomsday (albeit obviously slower).

[Zach Tartell]

PandeBurst: 2/9/0


Shouldn't that be 1/7/3? or 1/8/3, but that'd probably get to be more. Replenish, with Intuition for Gigapede, Burst, Pandemonium. Actually I suppose it'd be 1/7/4.

Stupid Extirpate.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Spellweaver's Helix 2/5/2

Intuition or TfK or somehow get a Life from the Loam/any Dredge/Cabal Therapy in a pinch and a Time Stretch/Time Warp in the yard. Play Helix, imprinting the two. Play another copy of the dredge card every turn (every other card for Time Stretch, which makes it doable with Therapy).

[Illissius]

Shouldn't that be 1/7/3? or 1/8/3, but that'd probably get to be more. Replenish, with Intuition for Gigapede, Burst, Pandemonium. Actually I suppose it'd be 1/7/4.

Intuition-Replenish-PandeBurst: 2/7/3

[GreenOne]

I can recall some combos from the "turn 1-3 Combos in aggro decks" thread:

Mogg Maniac + Fire Covenant: 2/5/0
- Grave dependency: No
- Needleability: No
- Stiflability: Yes
- Forceability: Yes
- Wastelandability: No
- Swordsability: Yes
- Disenchantability: No
- Chaliceability: No (chalice@0/1 doesn't hurt)

The good thing about the combo is that both the cards are useful on their own. The bad thing is that you need more life than your opponent and that a single counterspell or stifle or creature removal ruins your day, lealing you with very little life points.

About Face + Tireless Tribe: 2*/2/0
*you need other 5 cards in hand to deal 21 dmg.
- Grave dependency: No
- Needleability: Yes
- Stiflability: Partly (you need 1 more card in hand for each stifle)
- Forceability: Yes
- Wastelandability: No
- Swordsability: Yes
- Disenchantability: No
- Chaliceability: Yes (chalice@1)
The combo doesn't work if the opponent blocks too.

Phyrexian Ghoul + Academy rector + another critter: 2*/7/2
- Grave dependency: Only Leyline of the Void
- Needleability: Yes
- Stiflability: Yes
- Forceability: Yes
- Wastelandability: No
- Swordsability: Yes
- Disenchantability: No
- Chaliceability: No
You need a 3rd creature fo the combo to work. Any creature without shroud is good, I'm going to take a 0cc critter to lessen the mana count.
Attack with Ghoul, Sac Rector for Pattern of Rebirth attached to the 3rd critter, sac 3rd critter to get Symbiotic Wurm, sac Wurm for 7 1/1's, sac 1/1s for lethal.
If the Ghoul is blocked the combo doesn't work.


It would be great if the first post could be constantly updated, so we can have a good list without going through the entire thread.

[GreenOne]

Saffi Survival: 1/9+1/3+1 (Saffi+Caller+Crypt Champion, +1 is Anger)

You can have it cost 1 mana less using Loyal Retainers (http://magiccards.info/p3k/en/12.html)(you can look at the "I wll survive" deck in the CanG forum)


For the record,

Hulk Flash: 2/2/3

That's sort of like the ideal.

The tireless tribe+about face is 2/2/0. Strictly better. :cool:

[largebrandon]

Draco/Explosion 2/3/0

Hrmm, I can see a flash-esque type deck with this!

Control body:
4 FoW
4 Counterbalance
4 Counterspell

Draw/get draco on top:

4 SdT
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Portent
4 Lim-dul's Vault

Win conditions:

4 Eratic Explosion
2-3 Draco
2 Fireblast (extra 4 damage if need-be)

Land
2-3 Barbarian Ring (also for extra 4 damage)
Rest of the land!

I love it!

Also, with the Kiki-Jiki Kill, why not use Pestermite instead of Hussar. Pestermite seems so much easier to actually play if need-be.

[C.P.]

Also, with the Kiki-Jiki Kill, why not use Pestermite instead of Hussar. Pestermite seems so much easier to actually play if need-be.

Because they cannot attack FTW right away.

[nastynate]

Because they cannot attack FTW right away.

Why not? Kiki-jiki taps to make a hasty copy of pestermite, which untaps kiki-jiki, who again taps to make a hasty copy of pestermite, wash, rinse, repeat until you have a nigh infinite army of hasty pestermites, and attack for the win.

[Illissius]

You can have it cost 1 mana less using Loyal Retainers (http://magiccards.info/p3k/en/12.html)(you can look at the "I wll survive" deck in the CanG forum)

Actually, no. With Retainers you have to hardcast all the pieces; with Champion you get to Survival away the rest and cast only the Champion, returning the Saffi and starting the loop, and then returning the Caller once you've looped to your satisfaction. Loyal Retainers can't do that.

Maniac+Covenant is 2/5/0, I think.

Draco Explosion needs at least 3 cards because it's not going to hop on top of your library by itself. However...

Insidious Dreams into Draco Explosion: 1*/7/2

[etrigan]

PandeNought, the forgotten Dreadnought interaction.

Pandemonium-Dreadnought-Dreadnought: 3/6/0
(Pandemonium-Pandemonium-Dreadnought also works, but that's 3/9/0)

[iOWN]

Izzet Guildmage/Reset/Burn: 3/5/0

More like 2.5 cards because 'burn' is replaceable with any instant speed cantrip or burn spell. The mana needs to be all in land form. Two to play Reset, three to copy it. Copy resolves, untap, repeat for infinite mana. Then, play either the cantrip or burn spell and copy as much as needed. If it's a cantrip, you need one burn spell in your deck which you will eventually draw, play, and copy.

I personally like this combo because even though it's three cards, the third card is interchangeable, and the pieces are good on their own. I built an interesting deck around this a while ago, and the main drawback of the combo is that you need five lands to go off, which can be hard to secure against a deck with Wastelands or Sinkholes. Izzet can also be hard to keep in play because it's such a fragile body.


Basalt Monolith/Mesmeric Orb: 2/5/7

An alternative to Breakfast. It costs more mana, but isn't vulnerable to creature hate (in the sense that the pieces can safely come out on different turns). It mills a single card at a time. I listed chaff as 7, for 3 Narcomoeba, Kiki/Guide/Hussar, and Dread Return, however, considering the opening post, it could be 6 if you use 'Goyf and Ghoul instead (which also recquires Dragon Breath). This combo is also colorless, and can come out through the use of Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors.

[Cabal-kun]

Very interesting indeed! You could easily play vial in that deck: "EOT tap vial to put in Guildmage, then go off" Bad thing, though is if they counter the reset.

You'll be running blue, so you can play counters yourself.

[Benie Bederios]

Sorry I couldn't resist it:

Hatred + Carnophage/Sarcomancy: 2/6/0

BB

[Amber VII]

Another take on the Doomsday Combo,

(1/8/6)
Doomsday Stack

1 Night’s Whisper
1 Soul Spike
1 Erratic Explosion
1 Draco

Note, Soul Spike requires you to have two black cards in hand. The combo isn't as fast as Second Sunrise, but it is more resilient. I can't wait until Wizards finally prints the card that makes Doomsday tops.

Grave dependency: No
Needleability: No
Stiflabitiliy: No
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: No
Disenchantability: No
Chaliceability: Maybe



Also, I just had to add this in :cool:

Tarmogoyf
(1/2/0)

Grave dependency: Yes
Needleability: No
Stiflabitiliy: No
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: Yes
Disenchantability: No
Chaliceability: Maybe

[Bardo]

Promoted to sticky. Great thread. I may purge the chaff later on.

[SnakeEater]

I would like to add these two combos:

Stuffy Doll/Guilty Conscience: (2/6/0)

Grave dependency: No
Needleability: Yes
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: Yes
Disenchantability: Yes (the Enchantment - Aura)
Chaliceability: Yes

Life Combos: (3/???/1)
Daru Spiritualis or Task Force etc. +
Nomads en-Kor or Shaman en-Kor or Shuko etc. +
Diamond Valley or Worthy Cause or Starlit Sanctum etc.

After gaining millions of life you need a win condition like Test of Endurance or something else.

Grave dependency: No
Needleability: Yes
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: Maybe
Swordsability: Yes
Disenchantability: No
Chaliceability: Yes

[raharu]

For the targeting spell, you could use Lightning Greaves to make the combo un-Swords-able (after the Greaves equip).

[rufus]

Phyrexian Dreadnought + Berserk + Fling (or Fling + Fork)

[SnakeEater]

For the targeting spell, you could use Lightning Greaves to make the combo un-Swords-able (after the Greaves equip).

Not really! You cannot target the creature equipped with Lightning Greaves to equip it again. So you need a second creature to equip and than the first creature can sworded in response to the equip!

[C.P.]

Some old, janky ones.

Iridescent Drake + Abduction + a sac outlet
(2.5/6/6+)

The Drake into play, getting Abduction from GY. now you got a crature that does not die. The combo is disruptable to any creature removal, as well as any GY hate, and things like Meddling Mage.
The most common sac outlet is Altar of Dementia or Goblin Bombardment.

Also, I'd like to note that 2 Karmic Guide(1 in GY and 1 in play) also have simiar interaction.

Goblin Charbelcher/Mana severance
(2/9/8?)

Belcher away with no land in library. Any Needle/mage effect kills the combo, but the deck will prebably be in control shell, so there.

[Finn]

Gosh, I really never EVER seriously thought I would be directing people to this, but somehow here we are discussing it.

http://mtgsalvation.com/676-what-next-for-legacy-combo-socks-and-talking-elves.html

[FoolofaTook]

Sensei, Sensei is very strong in CounterTop as the win condition despite it's 4-card dependency.

The key is that both Enlightened Tutor and Mystical Tutor function to find the pieces and so only 1 or 2 Helms and 1 or 2 Brainfreeze are required to run the combo. That leaves your 4 CB and 4 Tops and a hell of a lot of WU denial/removal. Both tutors function independently with Counterbalance, making them more than just search pieces for the combo, they're answers also.

With the amount of reshuffle effects in play it's not hard to find the combo, and with the theme of the deck it's not hard to live for the 6 or 7 turns it takes to assemble it under worst case conditions.

The last piece in the strength of the combo is that it totally invalidates the opponent's creature removal in game 1.

[Willoe]

http://magicdeckvortex.com/DDB/locket_combo_2007_extended.htm

It's in extended, so with the Legacy cardpool, it could have some potential.

Grave dependency: Yes
Needleability: Yes
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: No
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: Yes

I'd use Chromatic Stars and Spheres for some deck thinning as well as more hits at cc1 with a "blind" counterbalance.

Can this have some potential?

4 Locket of Yesterdays
4 Chromatic Star
4 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Standstill
4 Force of Will
4 Artificer's Intuition
4 Counterbalance
2 Humility
1 Moat
1 Wrath of God

4 Mishra's Factory
2 Faerie Conclave
2 Mutavault
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
2 Island


is it just too janky to leave behind? Remember, this is just a VERY fast decklist I just came up with. If it has a little bit of potential, I'll test and post within a couple of days.

[Jaynel]

You might want a win condition in there. Something that can benefit from the infinite storm you generate from the combo.

[deadlock]

First off Standstil is horrible here, you want to dig for combo/ -whatever pieces in the first turns and keep control as good as possible, Thirst is definitly more powerful here.

Beside this, i also worked on the same concept, but there is one little thing that ruins your day in this kind of shell: Unlike SOTS you have no Squee like Artifact to create cardadvantage and dig for pieces at the same time.

If there would be a 0-1 CMC artifact that returns itself in your upkeep this type of deck would be in a pretty good position.
I would enable far more broken things though :cool:

So till then, you have to make sure that you can refill your hand, Thoughtcast and Thirst are a starting point.
Good luck with the concept, its pretty cool and i ll keep watching.

[Cavius The Great]

Lich+Nourishing Shoal has always been one of my favorites. :wink:

[Lothian]

So here we go for one of my favorite and as old as it gets:

Enduring Renewal + Goblin Bombardment (2/6/1)

I would put that one at 2/6/1

Where the 1 is obviously a 0 artifact-creature (ornithopter, shield sphere etc...)
So effective for so many years, it has to be in the list.

Grave dependency: Yes
Needleability: Yes
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: No
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: Yes

Another one less well-known:

Niv-Mizzet + Curiosity (2/7/0)

Although arguably, I play it with a reanimator shell to offset Niv-Mizzet casting cost.

Very effective and stylish! And can win turn 3, that's a real cracker!

Grave dependency: No
Needleability: No
Stiflabitiliy: No
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: Yes
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: Yes

They are 2 combos I play over and over, and once it hits the table, that's game over in 95% of the cases.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Enduring Renewal + Goblin Bombardment (2/6/1)

Grave dependency: No
Needleability: Yes
Stiflabitiliy: No
Forceability: No
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: No
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: YesI disagree. If you Force the the Thopter, or Stifle the trigger, the combo ends.

To the mods, if this post disrupts the flow of the thread, by all means delete it. I don't want to throw it off, but I feel as though it should be pointed out.

[Jaynel]

I disagree. If you Force the the Thopter, or Stifle the trigger, the combo ends.


The trigger of Enduring Renewal can be responded to with Crypt, I believe, and Leyline also shuts it off.

[Lothian]

Ok Ok...

Mea culpa

I actually didn't know about the changing in the rules from 2006 for Enduring renewal, where it is not a replacement anymore (weird...), so yeah you can stifle and tormod crypt it...

well, anything is forceable, I mean show me a combo where all cards are not forceable.

But well, is it all that important..

[Isamaru]

Actually, no. With Retainers you have to hardcast all the pieces; with Champion you get to Survival away the rest and cast only the Champion, returning the Saffi and starting the loop, and then returning the Caller once you've looped to your satisfaction. Loyal Retainers can't do that.

If you compare it to Finn's sock theory... or logic for that matter, it makes a lot more sense to play Loyal Retainers because you don't have to stretch the deck.

Something that should be taken into account (though I don't think it can be mathematically X/X/X/Y-wise) is how well the rest of the deck can function in the meantime / while assembling.

Crypt Champion opens you up to losing to Mogg Fanatic, Loaming Shaman, and tons of other opposing creatures. It also loses you two creatures instead of one if disrupted. Finally, Crypt Champion requires you to play 3-4 colors instead of 2.

Is there some way to represent this in our X/X/X/Y categories?

EDIT: A newer combo is Reveillark + Nantuko Husk + Saffi Eriksdotter... but 3 card combos are supposed to be better than this, and this is vulnerable to way too much, not to mention takes 3 colors.

[Nihil Credo]

Crypt Champion opens you up to losing to Mogg Fanatic, Loaming Shaman, and tons of other opposing creatures. It also loses you two creatures instead of one if disrupted. Finally, Crypt Champion requires you to play 3-4 colors instead of 2.
With Loyal Retainers, you have to sacrifice Saffi targeting the Retainers, let the ability resolve, then use the Retainers' ability. If, in response to Saffi's ability, the opponent kills the Retainers (with Fanatic or anything else) or RFGs the Saffi, the combo is disrupted. You lose both creatures if a kill spell was used, and only one if it was graveyard hate. The colour point stands.

[raharu]

Not really! You cannot target the creature equipped with Lightning Greaves to equip it again. So you need a second creature to equip and than the first creature can sworded in response to the equip!

Oh yeah. Throw in Leolin Shikari (instant speed equip).

[Benie Bederios]

Allright here a serious one. I don't know if I got the figures right: but Salvager Game

2/7/4

The two you need for the combo are Gamekeeper and Cabal Therapy/Innocent Blood. The cost is for casting Gamekeeper/ Cabal Therapy the first time and Returning the LED the first time with Salvager. The Chaff is Auriok Salvager, Lion's Eye Diamond, Chromatic Star and Pyrite Spellbomb

Grave dependency: Yes
Needleability: Yes (Needle on Salvager)
Stiflabitiliy: Yes(Gamekeeper trigger?)
Forceability: Yes (Gamekeeper, or sometimes LED)
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: Yes(Gamekeeper or Salvager)
Disenchantability: No
Chaliceability: Yes(0 shuts of LED, 1 shuts of Spellbomb/Star)

You have Future Sight, Helm of Awakening and Sensei's Divining Top too. But that one is almost strictly worse than Sensei Sensei. The only advantage is that you have 1 piece less. 2x Sensei/Helm of Awakening/Brain Freeze is 4 pieces. And that Sensei/Future Sight, is pretty got by itself.

3/7-9/1

If you play Helm of Awakening first you can get a cheaper Future Sight and Top. You can get the CC down to 6 if you use Rector.

Grave dependency: No
Needleability: Yes (Sensei)
Stiflabitiliy: No( well they might Stifle Sensei)
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: No
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: Yes

This is not my combo( well the twoabove neither) I don't really know the real strenght of the combo: Academy Rector / Kaervek's Spite. You play Rector, EOT Spite. Rector searches for Barren Glory. Win in your upkeep.

2/7/1

Grave dependency: Yes(Rector Trigger)
Needleability: No
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes( note: countering Spite does nothing)
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: Yes( although, you can always Spite in response and they can't plow in response)
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: No

BB

[GreenOne]

Allright here a serious one. I don't know if I got the figures right: but Salvager Game

2/7/4


There's also straight Bomberman:
3/4/0
Combo involves Salvagers, Diamond and Spellbomb/Chromatic

Grave dependency: Yes
Needleability: Yes
Stiflabitiliy: Yes, but stops the combo for just a turn.
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: Yes
Disenchantability: No
Chaliceability: Yes (0 shuts of LED, 1 shuts of Spellbomb/Star)

[Iranon]

I will probably lag behind quite a bit bringing the opening post up to date... sick and need to catch up with my course, but I'm appreciating the responses.

The numbers aren't the end of it all, especially not if the enablers are true engine cards like Survival that can squeeze out additional mana by tutoring up Rofellos or having Volrath's Shapeshifter come into play as a Palinchron... I generally make as few assumptions as possible while remaining realistic.

For the same reason, I generally don't count tutors-on-speed as one-card combo, and am equally reluctant to include non-foolproof methods like Gamekeeper - if you include something to ensure you get what you need in the yard the thing is so unwieldy it's not practicable.

[Sek'Kuar]

Why not Orim's Chant and Isochron Scepter. :w: per turn to lock your opponent out of the game (save a thresholded Barbarian Ring) sounds like game over to me.

[ParkerLewis]

Why not Orim's Chant and Isochron Scepter. :w: per turn to lock your opponent out of the game (save a thresholded Barbarian Ring) sounds like game over to me.

If your opponents scoops to scepter/chant, well... he's a pretty bad player/deckbuilder... He can still play instants, thus digging for answers (brainstorm, predict, whatever). And then just play the answer (which are most likely also instants - see Krosan Grip).

Well, it is the classic scepter/chant combo... neat on the surface, but that's about it. In any case, if you want to use it, don't assume it'll win you the game by itself or you're in for a big surprise.

[J.V.]

Why not Orim's Chant and Isochron Scepter. :w: per turn to lock your opponent out of the game (save a thresholded Barbarian Ring) sounds like game over to me.

You can respond to Scepter activations... also like every deck that can runs 3-4 krosan grip side. And its actually :2::w: not :w:... anyways, its annoying at best not game over.

[GreenOne]

Well, not every deck is prepared to Scepter-Chant G1.
- Goblins doesn't have an out unless have an active vial, tinkerer or SGC.
- Stax, Ichorid, Rock, PoX, Pikula, AggroLoam, Dragon Stompy, Survival Doesn't have an out preside.
- Thresh-like decks have just FoW and Stifle.

Sure, G2 and 3 they have plenty hate to board in, but I'll not dismiss it that fast. It's better than Mogg Maniac + Fire Covenant.

[Gambit]

Pestermite + Kiki Jiki Mirror Breaker = Infy hasty copies of pestermite

[Iranon]

Scepter/Chant doesn't win the game. While it might herald a game win, many decks have an out and most should... instant-speed artifact destruction or even general-purpose tools: Counter the Chant, play a Pithing Needle.

Generally, I'm not including gamebreaking plays that don't win on their own; the Trix combo is the weakest win I'm still prepeared to include. A Trinisphere followed up by a Smokestack might not leave an option to break out of the lock... or it might be meaningless if the opponent has enough on the table to finish the job. Again, too situational.

***

Point taken about Pestermite and Kiki. In they go, although I don't think I'd usually plan on hardcasting them.

[Cavius The Great]

A really bad combo I came up with. Crusading Knight and Urborg, Tomb of yawgmoth. I know, it's horrible. :tongue:

[Willoe]

Has anyone yet mentioned Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary + Staff of Domination?

Infinte life, infinite green mana and infinite card draw for 2 cards? Only thing that is required is 5 lands in play xD

You could of course use another creature that produces 5 or more mana. Priest of Titania, for example. Best card here is metalworker though, no wonder it's banned.

Rofellos is already in most Survival decks, right? Maybe an artifact tutor creature and one staff could make it out of another kill condition?

[Tacosnape]

Has anyone yet mentioned Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary + Staff of Domination?


This is one of my favorite combos that I never managed to make work in a deck. I can't justify running Rofellos outside of Survival, and I can't justify running a non-Survivalable combo in Survival when I'd never get the Rofellos without the Survival anyway. And when I -do- get Rofellos/Staff, my manabase gets eaten before it hits the requisite 5 Forests needed for insanity.

Other neat cards with Staff of Domination (Besides the obvious Cabal Coffers):

Magus of the Coffers (Neat as a kill in Mono Black Control)
Priest of Titania / Wirewood Channeler (Redundancy)
Braid of Fire (Mostly cute and fun, but not terribly useful. Try this with Paradox Haze for ultimate bizarre scrubbery fun.)

[Willoe]

@Taco: Staff only untaps creatures, which doesn't allow for infinite combos with Cabal Coffers. Magus of the Coffers could surely do, but hmm...

[mattkru]

Composite Golem + Corpse Dance + random storm-spell (2/6/1)

[Tacosnape]

That's actually 2/5/1 if you can get the Golem into the yard in the first place. Neat how you don't have to, though.

While I'm at it, Defense of the Heart (w/ Kiki-Jiki & Pestermite in deck) = 1/4/2.

[Willoe]

With Hunted Troll as enabler! :D It could look good. Also, fetching two bringer of the blue dawn almost spells GG. It would just be kinda slow.

[FoolofaTook]

Enduring Renewal/Phyrexian Dreadnought/Altar of Dementia

3/4/0

Takes until turn 4 to get into play with appropriate acceleration or turn 5 with no acceleration. It's slow and you can see it coming a mile away but it decks on turn 4 or 5.

You play Altar of Dementia at first reasonable opportunity and then Enduring Renewal the following turn. If you're playing Dark Ritual you can half deck people the turn Enduring Renewal comes into play otherwise you're waiting for the next turn.

The combo is vulnerable to all graveyard hate and counterspells. It is not vulnerable to Swords to Plowshares because you can always re-activate Altar of Dementia in response to their StP after activating it the first time.

I see the combo fitting in as a secondary kill option in a Stifle-Nought or Vision Charm-Nought theme.

[insertnamehere]

Has anyone yet mentioned Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary + Staff of Domination?

Infinte life, infinite green mana and infinite card draw for 2 cards? Only thing that is required is 5 lands in play xD

You could of course use another creature that produces 5 or more mana. Priest of Titania, for example. Best card here is metalworker though, no wonder it's banned.

Rofellos is already in most Survival decks, right? Maybe an artifact tutor creature and one staff could make it out of another kill condition?

Been there, done that, played it and it works only against aggro. If your opponent stops your staff then the deck does nothing.

[Cavius The Great]

With Hunted Troll as enabler! :D It could look good. Also, fetching two bringer of the blue dawn almost spells GG. It would just be kinda slow.

Hunted Troll is horrible. 8 mana combos are not tech. Believe me I've tested Hunted Troll with defense of the Heart. It's waaay too slow. You're better off running Forbidden Orchard and Crop Rotation.

[adrieng]

I am testing dreadnought+ greater good.
you draw 12 then do it once more discard sutured ghoul and play shallow grave for the win with four fow you have drawn backup.
It is not really grave dependant cause you still draw 12 cards.

[Cavius The Great]

I am testing dreadnought+ greater good.
you draw 12 then do it once more discard sutured ghoul and play shallow grave for the win with four fow you have drawn backup.
It is not really grave dependant cause you still draw 12 cards.

Does that really work? If so, I'd probably play the combo in some storm based combo shell.

[georgjorge]

As mentioned in the Shadowmoor thread - if the spoiled cards are correct, then

Swans of Bryn Argoll
2{wu}{wu}
Creature - Bird Spirit
Flying
If damage would be dealt to Swans of Bryn Argoll, prevent that damage. The controller of the damage's source then draws cards equal to the damage prevented in this way.
4/3

plus Chain of Plasma would be a decent combo: 2/6/0 (you draw your deck, so you'd need SOME artifact mana in it...).

[Willoe]

No you don't. Play combo control all the way and win on the spot with the only acceleration consiting of 4 (for consistensy increasements) Simian Spirit Guides and 1 Desperate Ritual and Lightning Storm.

EDIT: 4 SSG are for Chain of Plasma at instant speed anytime, then later 2 spirit guides, then 1 desp rit for lethal lightning storm. Forgot to explain that.

In fact, the "little" Plasma Swans/Hot Wings/Swan's Song/Chain Song whatever thread has a decklist that goes off at instant speed (exluding lands and swans) and can win through a STP, if anyone should have missed it.

[idraleo]

Protean Hulk, Show and Tell, Cabal Therapy or Phyrexian Tower (2/3/1)

Grave dependency: Yes
Needleability: No
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: Yes
Disenchantability: No
Chaliceability: Unfair

[Benie Bederios]

Protean Hulk, Show and Tell, Cabal Therapy or Phyrexian Tower (2/3/1)

Grave dependency: Yes
Needleability: No
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: Yes
Disenchantability: No
Chaliceability: Unfair

More like

(3/4/3)
Cards you need Protean Hulk, Show and tell and Cabal Therapy, makes three. Cabal Therapy and Show and Tell cost 4( you need to cast Therapy first) and need Kiki-Jiki, Karmic Guide and Carrion Feeder as Chaff.

BB

[idraleo]

You can cast Therapy the turn before of playing Show and Tell and cast it for free with the flashback ability. The other part of the combo is not relevant in hand since you got to find they throught the deck, even if you ride the Kiki-Karmic or Reveillark-Body Double combo.

It should be 3/3/1 but not more.

[GiantGrowth]

You can cast Therapy the turn before of playing Show and Tell and cast it for free with the flashback ability. The other part of the combo is not relevant in hand since you got to find they throught the deck, even if you ride the Kiki-Karmic or Reveillark-Body Double combo.

It should be 3/3/1 but not more.

benie is talking about doing the combo all in one turn, and the chaff still counts because it takes up slots in the deck that could be used for protection.

[Iranon]

Staff of Domination is cool, no doubt... but I can't think of a practicable companion that doesn't have steep requirements. Elves! can use it to win turn 4 more often than not, but that requires a whole engine.

Wouldn't the dancing Golem require a kill in hand and the mana to cast it, making it 3/8/0 and therefore outside the scope of this?

And how would we put down the Roast Swan combo? 2/6/2?

[rufus]

Staff of Domination is cool, no doubt... but I can't think of a practicable companion that doesn't have steep requirements. Elves! can use it to win turn 4 more often than not, but that requires a whole engine.


Umbral Mantle is significantly faster (3 instead of 5 mana per tap to go off), and it will work with devoted druid.

[dahcmai]

Why not Orim's Chant and Isochron Scepter. :w: per turn to lock your opponent out of the game (save a thresholded Barbarian Ring) sounds like game over to me.


Now add a Teferi to this mix and it is a hard lock. I can only think of one way out and it's not a very good one.

[quicksilver]

Painter's Servant + Grindstone

2/6/0

[Ozymandias]

Academy Rector+Kaervek's Spite+Barren Glory

2/7/1

Grave dependency: Yes
Needleability: No
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: Over 2 turns, yes. One, no
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: No

The advantage of this combo is that you can do other sorts of things with the Rectors besides going "I win.", like finding a Moat or Humility, if you have abother way to activate it. Also, this only takes up 9-10 slots, so there's room for another compact combo, 28 mana sources, and 12 disruption/search spells to boot.

[Mr Wiggl3s]

2/2/5*

Tireless Tribe/Transmute

[xsockmonkeyx]

Transmute

????????

[Roman Candle]

I think he means Transmutation. But it still sucks.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Transmutation costs 2. Maybe About Face?

[Mr Wiggl3s]

I think he means Transmutation. But it still sucks.

no it fucking rocks your socks

[Roman Candle]

I'm not wearing socks. But if I did, they would be far from rocked. You have to have like 7 cards in hand including Transmutation and pray to god the opponent doesn't have spot removal for a +7. It's also Pithable and Stiflable.

[dude 666]

Basalt Monolith/Mesmeric Orb: 2/5/7

An alternative to Breakfast. It costs more mana, but isn't vulnerable to creature hate (in the sense that the pieces can safely come out on different turns). It mills a single card at a time. I listed chaff as 7, for 3 Narcomoeba, Kiki/Guide/Hussar, and Dread Return, however, considering the opening post, it could be 6 if you use 'Goyf and Ghoul instead (which also recquires Dragon Breath). This combo is also colorless, and can come out through the use of Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors.

I have a question, how does this one work? Basalt monolith says you can't use the mana for abilities of permanents named basalt monolith, or am I missing something?

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I have a question, how does this one work? Basalt monolith says you can't use the mana for abilities of permanents named basalt monolith, or am I missing something?You're looking at an old wording. You can now use Monolith to untap itself. Look here (http://magiccards.info/al/en/231.html).

[dude 666]

Thanks alot, that clears things up....still doesn't make that combo any more viable though :(

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Thanks alot, that clears things up....still doesn't make that combo any more viable though :(I don't think it's too inviable. It does suddenly win in no colors. It could fit in a Stax or Wildfire deck.

[Fossil4182]

I always like the following:

2/5/0

Animate Land + Eradicate

Its more of a causal combo, however it does have the ability to completely remove any number of given lands in someone's deck. Always thought it could be helpful at least.

[dude 666]

I'm pretty sure waste + extirpate is much better.

[GreenOne]

I'm pretty sure waste + extirpate is much better.
Yeah, but it does not hit basics.
However, this combo does not win the game, neither it's a prison effect: the opponent still have lands in play (-1) and can draw any other type of lands you did not remove.

Let's talk about combos that win the game or put you on a great favorable situation please.

Is there a possibility to always update the opening post when a new combo is posted? It would be great to have a browsable list without reading all the thread.

[Willoe]

No, Extirpate won't work against basic lands, which is the main target of that combo. But it isn't what we consider a "combo" in Legacy.

But in casual, the ability to strip away all lands in the opponents deck (because most decks are monocolored) is always great.

[Fossil4182]

Another one that comes to mind that I haven't seen could be Power Artifact and Basalt Monolith. Its a way to create infinite mana and anything from Demon Fire, Stroke or even Helix Pinnacle could be used as a win condition.

[GreenOne]

Basalt Monolith/Mesmeric Orb: 2/5/7

An alternative to Breakfast. It costs more mana, but isn't vulnerable to creature hate (in the sense that the pieces can safely come out on different turns). It mills a single card at a time. I listed chaff as 7, for 3 Narcomoeba, Kiki/Guide/Hussar, and Dread Return, however, considering the opening post, it could be 6 if you use 'Goyf and Ghoul instead (which also recquires Dragon Breath). This combo is also colorless, and can come out through the use of Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors.

There's also:
Wake Thrasher+Basalt Monolith: 2/5U/0
and
Wake Thrasher+Seeker of skybreak: 2/3GU/0

To be used in conjunction with the combo above (and Mesmeric orb+Seeker of Skybreak too) as plan B in a possible deck.

[Benie Bederios]

Funny this combo hasn't been mentioned. It' one of the oldest

Lich + Mirror Universe

2/10/0

Grave dependency: No
Needleability: Yes
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: no
Disenchantability: Yes


Academy Rector+Kaervek's Spite+Barren Glory

2/7/1

Grave dependency: Yes
Needleability: No
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: Over 2 turns, yes. One, no
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: No

The advantage of this combo is that you can do other sorts of things with the Rectors besides going "I win.", like finding a Moat or Humility, if you have abother way to activate it. Also, this only takes up 9-10 slots, so there's room for another compact combo, 28 mana sources, and 12 disruption/search spells to boot.

Has already be mentioned.

[Opterown]

Funny this combo hasn't been mentioned. It' one of the oldest

Lich + Mirror Universe

2/10/0

Grave dependency: No
Needleability: Yes
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: no
Disenchantability: Yes



Has already be mentioned.

You don't win from that, do you? You gain draw a lot of cards, yes. But you still get hurt and sacrifice permanents. Also a LOT of mana

[idraleo]

It could also be

Wake Trasher + Aphetto Alchemist (2\3UU\0)

[Benie Bederios]

You don't win from that, do you? You gain draw a lot of cards, yes. But you still get hurt and sacrifice permanents. Also a LOT of mana

Uhm.. Lich put my life total to zero, without me dying. If I play Mirror Universe my life total would become say 20 and that of my opponent 0, thus killing him and me drawing 20 cards. How does tat not win?

I agree it isn't a very viable combo. But it is still 2 cards, so quit compact. You could us Ritual to power both pieces out and they don't have to be played on the same turn.

[Lego]

One more from Eventide.

Quillspike/Devoted Druid

2 / 3G(B/G) / 0

[georgjorge]

There's also:
Wake Thrasher+Basalt Monolith: 2/5U/0
and
Wake Thrasher+Seeker of skybreak: 2/3GU/0

To be used in conjunction with the combo above (and Mesmeric orb+Seeker of Skybreak too) as plan B in a possible deck.


Wait...best of them would be Orb + Monolith, as it would be colorless and not vulnerable to creature removal ! You then have your whole deck in the yard, and need a Breakfast-like kill though...so it would be slower than Breakfast but more stable.

2/5/6 (the absolute minimum of crap cards - Breath, Ghoul, Return and three Moebas, providing you don't count the Goyfs you also have to run as crap).

[TSchultz]

Well... there are some other janky combos in this thread... So I figured I'd post this one. Maybe it's not compact though? (All the chaff)

Grinding Station + Myr Incubator: 2/6-14/16ish

Artifact, 2 (2)
{T}, Sacrifice an artifact: Target player puts the top three cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
Whenever an artifact comes into play, you may untap Grinding Station.

Artifact, 6 (6)
{6}, {T}, Sacrifice Myr Incubator: Search your library for any number of artifact cards, remove them from the game, then put that many 1/1 Myr artifact creature tokens into play. Then shuffle your library.

Well... Pretty self explanatory...

Grave dependency: No
Needleability: Yes
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: No
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: No?

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Maybe I'm dumb, I don't get it.You put a bunch of Myr into play, then in response to each "Whenever an artifact comes into play" triggers, you tap the station to mill three.

[Mon1018]

Thank you for your help. Really appreciate it.
Excellent information.Many thanks!:laugh:

[TSchultz]

I found this amusing... Maybe it's just me though...

Sway of the Stars+Underworld Dreams 2/13/0

Grave dependency: No
Needleability: No
Stiflabitiliy: Yes, but they'd be at 1 life afterward.
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: No
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: No

[Nihil Credo]

Doesn't work. You shuffle all your permanents (Underworld Dreams included) right before drawing seven cards, so Dreams won't be there to see the draws and trigger.

Sad, because otherwise it would have been really cool.

[torgar]

Disclaimer: This combo is NOT compact.

However, it is actually a deck I have built for casual play which boasts a winning percentage greater than 0. And if there were ever a time to brag about it..

I call it Tick-Tock. Or the GhettoTimeVault.

Coretapper, Magistrate Scepter, Clock of Omens and Five Other Artifacts plus three mana = Infinite Turns.

3/12/5

Fits a nice curve of 2, 3, 4.

Alternatively, Coretapper can be Power Conduit and a full Sun Droplet. (This deck always has a full Sun Droplet because it's just a goldfish-punching bag til it goes off)

Basalt Monolith and Vedalken Artificiers provide the mana.
Aphetto Alchemist, Icy Manipulator, Quicksilver Fountain provide utility/defense.

The kill is to fill up a lone Darksteel Reactor.
But if my opponent boards Altar's Light, my alternate kill is Granite Shard.

Come to think of it, the chaff might be 57.

(Sidenote- I have won a game on MWS with this deck. Whether that is a testament to the deck or the quality of MWS scrubs, I dunno)

[Avatar of Light]

Trix: 2/5/0

Shouldn't this be 7 mana and not 5? Donate is 2U, Illusions is 3U.

[The Rack]

not if Sapphire Medallion is out.

[Wallace]

There's also:
Wake Thrasher+Basalt Monolith: 2/5U/0
and
Wake Thrasher+Seeker of skybreak: 2/3GU/0

To be used in conjunction with the combo above (and Mesmeric orb+Seeker of Skybreak too) as plan B in a possible deck.


What about Wake thrasher + Murkfiend Liege/Seedborn Muse?

[Lego]

What about Wake thrasher + Murkfiend Liege/Seedborn Muse?

Doesn't win the game.

[Illissius]

Pattern/Rector: 1+1+1/4+X+Y/4
Pattern/Rector with Greater Gargadon: 2+1/5+X/4

You need: Either Pattern of Rebirth or Academy Rector, a reusable sacrifice outlet (Gargadon works great), and one other creature.

If you have Rector, sac it to get Pattern. Put it on the other creature, sac it. At this point you can kill in two ways:

1. Fetch Iridescent Drake returning Pattern, sac it, fetch Reveillark, sac it returning Drake returning Pattern, sac it, fetch Body Double copying Reveillark, sac it returning itself and Drake returning Pattern, sac the latter, fetch Mogg Fanatic (or whatever else), kill thy opponent. (If you can't figure out how, go read some Standard articles on Lark.)

2. Fetch Protean Hulk, sac it, fetch Body Double copying Hulk, sac it, fetch Reveillark and Mogg Fanatic, kill thy opponent.

Advantages: With Gargadon (or Carrion Feeder) the combo costs only 5 mana. You get to run up to 8 copies of Pattern/Rector (also Natural Order if using Hulk) and however many sac outlets you want (though only four Gargadons). Gargadon can't be countered or dealt with in basically any other common way besides discard. Both Gargadon and Rector are creatures, for tutoring purposes. Pattern/Rector/Order are versatile.

Disadvantages: Needs a creature to put Pattern on. Loses to instant speed removal. Loses to graveyard hate.

If you Natural Order for Hulk, a single use sacrifice outlet is sufficient if you also fetch Carrion Feeder. I'm too tired to figure out if this loses to removal. You can Order and sac Hulk without passing priority, so it doesn't do so immediately.

[Hightower]

I don't think the creator of this thread is updating it, atleast I couldn't find Painter/Grindstone combo in the first post - maybe a mod could edit the new combos into the opening post?

[Iranon]

I thought I had Painter's Servant in there... oops, neglect on my part.

The numbers for Trix I thought I had fixed... apparently I aborted the edit. Originally, I confused total cost with minimum to be paid in one chunk.

***

About some of the other combos... an Infinity/Infinity creature without Trample doesn't win the game by itself - something like River Boa or Bitterblossom or in some cases Mother of Runes could hold it off until the cows come home. Admittedly those cards aren't widely played, but even against decks that can only chump block this might simply become a stall instead of a win.

I know I'm drawing an arbitrary line allowing an infinite amount of creatures but not a creature with infinite stats - after all, the first one can be thwarted as well.

I'm also limiting this to 2.5-card-combos (e.g. 2 specific cards and some easy requirements like a card of a certain type or colour in hand). Otherwise, it's unlikely to really be a compact combo.

[Zinch]

Disclaimer: This combo is NOT compact.

However, it is actually a deck I have built for casual play which boasts a winning percentage greater than 0. And if there were ever a time to brag about it..

I call it Tick-Tock. Or the GhettoTimeVault.

Coretapper, Magistrate Scepter, Clock of Omens and Five Other Artifacts plus three mana = Infinite Turns.

3/12/5

Fits a nice curve of 2, 3, 4.

Alternatively, Coretapper can be Power Conduit and a full Sun Droplet. (This deck always has a full Sun Droplet because it's just a goldfish-punching bag til it goes off)

Basalt Monolith and Vedalken Artificiers provide the mana.
Aphetto Alchemist, Icy Manipulator, Quicksilver Fountain provide utility/defense.

The kill is to fill up a lone Darksteel Reactor.
But if my opponent boards Altar's Light, my alternate kill is Granite Shard.

Come to think of it, the chaff might be 57.

(Sidenote- I have won a game on MWS with this deck. Whether that is a testament to the deck or the quality of MWS scrubs, I dunno)

It could be more compact with coretapper, magistrate's scepter and corpse dance

[Vacrix]

what ever happened to Forbidden Oath??

that was the shit.

Oath of Druids + Forbidden Orchard = Darksteel colossus

[Nazgath]

what ever happened to Forbidden Oath??

that was the shit.

Oath of Druids + Forbidden Orchard = Darksteel colossus
Oath of Druids:

Legal in Vintage, Tempest Block
Banned in Legacy (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=6151)

[Vacrix]

ahh..

why is it banned?? its not THAT good. it still loses to countermagic no?

[Nazgath]

ahh..

why is it banned?? its not THAT good. it still loses to countermagic no?
Tarmogoyf can also be countered. Now, for the same cost, look at the difference in powerlevel.

[Vacrix]

meh if that can get banned then so should counterbalance. same powerlevel i think. and that way SI is easier for me to go off with. :D

[Zinch]

Counterbalance isn't remotely near of oath in power level terms...
You are comparing a card that need another artifact in play to be remotely efective and then it does nothing to the board state with an enchtantment that searches your library to your bigest and scariest creature and puts it directly into play without paying anything... I think its not the same...
A metagame with oath is a metagame without creatures, is that simply.

[Captain_Morgan]

Then there's that land that shits creatures for the opponent as well as pheldagriff from invasion. Oath was easy to beat if they didn't play any mass removal with a rogue deck that could mass hard to counter creatures and/or recurr them easily. I saw that exploited severely in an oath dominated format, since they all went "anti-oath" mirror matches. Was amusing when people ditched the deck in 6 months.

The issue is, the format becomes really lame at the local level since everyone wants to play oath for dragons or angels.

[Tog]

Fons posted this as a potential new deck I thought it warranted extra discussion. The combo:

Skill Borrower & Kiki-Jiki Mirror Breaker (On top of Library) 2/3/(# of Kiki)

Set-up: Skill Borrower is in play without summoning sickness and is revealing a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker as the top card of the library.

Description of Combo: At the end of an opponent's turn, Skill Borrower taps to put a copy of a non-legendary creature (itself) in to play. Kiki-Jiki gives the new copy haste. Tap the copy of the token to generate another copy and repeat the process. Use this to generate infinite 1/3 Skill Borrower copies. Since these copies are sacrificed at the end of turn, one can swing for the win during your following turn.

Benefits: It require very little mana investment on the part of the Skill Borrower and setting up the top card of the library is rather easy (Sensei's Divining Top, Brainstorm, Lim-Dul's Vault). There are very few dead cards, only the number of Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breakers.

Cons: Creature based combo in which Skill Borrower has to live through it's borrowed activated ability.

[georgjorge]

The combo requires more than three mana since you need to pay for the effect of putting Kiki on top as well. And since Brainstorm/Top can't RELIABLY find you a Kiki, I'd put it as either

2/4/# of Kiki

with a Worldly Tutor, or

1/6/# of Kiki

with a Congregation of Dawn (finding both Kiki and Borrower).


The nice thing is that the tutors can find you both pieces of the combo. The big problem of course is that it's based on a creature that has to live two turns, so you'd definitely need stuff like Mother of Runes, Sylvan Safekeeper or whatever in addition to your usual disruption. It's maybe comparable to Painter, which costs two mana more but needs to stay in play for only one turn.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Cards needed to find combo don't count as part of the combo because they're not part of the combo.

[Skeggi]

Cards needed to find combo don't count as part of the combo because they're not part of the combo.

Wouldn't they fall under chaff? Or am I completely misunderstanding the chaff concept? (a very viable option) :smile:

[georgjorge]

The Tutor/Congregation doesn't FIND you the combo piece, it enables the combo by putting Kiki on top. The difference is that with another combo, if you have both pieces in hand you don't need to pay any extra mana to search for one. But with this combo, you will ALWAYS have to pay for the tutors even if your hand is three Kiki and three Borrowers. In short, the combo is not Borrower + Kiki, it's Borrower + Tutor, just as Full English Breakfast is not a combo of Shapeshifter + Akroma + Phage, it's a "combo" of one card alone, Survival.

[bruno_tiete]

The Tutor/Congregation doesn't FIND you the combo piece, it enables the combo by putting Kiki on top. The difference is that with another combo, if you have both pieces in hand you don't need to pay any extra mana to search for one. But with this combo, you will ALWAYS have to pay for the tutors even if your hand is three Kiki and three Borrowers.

With Congragation, you need to add a Mogg or something to the stack. Borrower has no haste and you will draw Kiki-Jiki in the turn you were supposed to make a bunch of tokens. Unless you have a way to keep KJ on top or a way to untap your infinite tapped Borrowers, you wont be able to win. If you add a Mogg, you can make all copies during upkeep, then draw Kiki-Jiki and sacrifice your Borrowers with the Mogg now on top of your library.

Regarding Kiki in hand, use your Brainstorms wisely.

[freakish777]

Cards needed to find combo don't count as part of the combo because they're not part of the combo.

Skill Borrower combos with Worldly Tutor (not Kiki-Jiki), similar to how Flash combos with Protean Hulk.

Sure you need some number of other cards in your deck in order for it to actually do something, but that doesn't change the fact that the cards it actually combos with are the card disadvantage tutors (Worldly, Enlightened, Lim-Dul's Vualt, Congregation at Dawn, etc).

Playing any more than 1 Kiki-Jiki in this combo downright awful. The combo is literally Skill Borrower + Worldly Tutor (as these are the two cards you're trying to resolve), not Skill Borrower + Kiki-Jiki (Kiki-Jiki having to be in your deck is really just a formality and has minimal effect on the rest of the game). Just like the combo is Buried Alive + Reanimate/Exhume (and you need Karmic Guide + Kiki-Jiki + Pestermite in your deck) and isn't actually Pestermite + Kiki-Jiki (you're never actually trying to resolve Kiki-Jiki here or with Skill Borrower, he isn't a 4-of in your deck).

If I have Kiki-Jiki and Skill Borrower in my hand, have I drawn the combo? Definitely not. If I have Skill Borrower and Worldly Tutor in my hand I have drawn the combo. It's irrelevant what creature/artifact Skill Borrower combos with, simply that there exists at least 1 card that when it's on top of your library and Skill Borrower is in play kills the opponent. Now you might argue "If you have Kiki-Jiki + Borrower + Brainstorm you have combo'd! What the hell?" Here Borrower isn't combo'ing with Kiki-Jiki but with Brainstorm. Skill Borrower is combos with cards that allow you to control what the top card of your library is. It's that simple. For the purposes of defining the combo succinctly, Kiki-Jiki only comes into the equation in that he must be in your deck.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Yeah, I guess you [pl.] are right. Is this the first combo in this thread that involves cards on the top of a library without Divining Top?

[GreenOne]

Yeah, I guess you [pl.] are right. Is this the first combo in this thread that involves cards on the top of a library without Divining Top?

There was draco-explosion discussed before that included other ways to have a draco on top (LDV,Ponder, Brainstorm, Portent).
Don't know if this is helpful, but here's the link (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=202211&postcount=29).

[freakish777]

Yeah, I guess you [pl.] are right. Is this the first combo in this thread that involves cards on the top of a library without Divining Top?

Yeah probably. I mean I'd look at it exactly as I would if there were a non-planeswalker spell with converted manacost 20, Erratic Explosion wouldn't combo with that card, it would with the Enlightened/Mystical/Worldly Tutor that put that card on top of your deck (dear Wizards, please print a 20 mana sorcery, I don't care what it does so long as there aren't any triggers for revealing it from your library).

[georgjorge]

(dear Wizards, please print a 20 mana sorcery, I don't care what it does so long as there aren't any triggers for revealing it from your library).

Seconded. I T8'd one of the few Extended PTQs I ever played in with Draco Explosion, I want that deck in Legacy, and viable !

[Wobbles The Goose]

"compact" combos

Intuition + Mesmeric Orb

2/6/8+

The other 8 cards are 4 Fatestichers + Dread Return and a way to win (Karmic, Kiki, Pester).

someone should figure out a more compact kill, because the ability to have mesmeric orb on the table, then intuition for 3 Fatestichers, seems awesome.

Also cool in that you might just randomly mill the fatestichers with the orb.

Oh, and just because it's funny:
Grave dependency: Yes
Needleability: Yes
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: Yes
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: X=2

Take that wasteland!



Recurring Nightmare + Mana Producer 1+ Su-Chi

3ish /10ish /Probably a couple

This is more of a shameless plug for a deck that never got any attention:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8054

Still, the infinite recurring capabilities of netting mana off of recurring nightmare seems good. Probably requires another chaff card to "win": say Trinket Mage into Magma mine, or a black fireball effect. I just liked drawing the deck then using rishadan pirate over and over.


Hehehe:
Grave dependency: Yes
Needleability: Yes
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: Not exactly
Swordsability: Yes
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: X=3

[Eseph]

Well I've been having plenty of fun with Kiki-Jiki + Lightning Crafter for infinite damage. Something like:

2-3/3-10/goblins?
It's pretty simple to do, you just need a Kiki-Jiki in play before playing lightning crafter as well as a sacrifice outlet of some sort (Food Chain, Skirk Prospector, etc). If you've anything to remove to it then you might as well, but otherwise with the Champion trigger on the stack you can copy crafter removing kiki jiki, deal 3 to the head, sacrifice the copy and repeat the process. Sharphshooter also works as an alternative to a sacrifice outlet with lightning crafter copies killing themselves.

[georgjorge]

Hmm...could you update with the combos posted in the last pages (Skill Borrower combos, Pattern + Gargadon) ? I think they fit the definition of compact.

Also, Planar Void doesn't work with Helm of Obedience. And Time Vault has been banned in the meantime :wink: .

I also found a bit of a solution to the vulnerability of Skill Borrower, which is to stack the Congregation of Dawn with Borrower, Cephalid Inkshrouder/Sylvan Safekeeper, then Kiki-Jiki. While Borrower has summoning sickness, he can't be targeted, and when he can be targeted, you can already combo out, although if you combo they CAN remove it in response...but at least you'll have mana open to protect it. And if you have Top and a bit of mana, you can make it effectively immune to removal by switching Inkshrouder/Safekeeper and Kiki-Jiki around.

[GreenOne]

Well I've been having plenty of fun with Kiki-Jiki + Lightning Crafter for infinite damage. Something like:

2-3/3-10/goblins?
It's pretty simple to do, you just need a Kiki-Jiki in play before playing lightning crafter as well as a sacrifice outlet of some sort (Food Chain, Skirk Prospector, etc). If you've anything to remove to it then you might as well, but otherwise with the Champion trigger on the stack you can copy crafter removing kiki jiki, deal 3 to the head, sacrifice the copy and repeat the process. Sharphshooter also works as an alternative to a sacrifice outlet with lightning crafter copies killing themselves.

There's also the other combo based on Food Chain Goblins for Legacy used in Goblin Champions (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12248).

Matron+Food Chain+ at least 1 mana (or 1 goblin in hand)
2/8/6-12

- Grave dependency: No
- Needleability: Yes
- Stiflabilitiy: Yes
- Forceability: Yes
- Wastelandability: No
- Swordsability:Yes
- Disenchantability:Yes
- Chaliceability: No

The good thing about this combo (like Eseph's) is that it just needs Food chain as non-goblin card.

The "chaff" is, in fact, composed by
- Goblin Matrons (if you have already 4 mana in pool you need only 1 matron to combo though)
- 1 Goblin Pyromancer
- 1 Kiki-Jiki
- 4 to 7 between Lightning Crafters and Kiki-jiki, depending on how much damage you want to deal with the combo. 4 is the minimum to deal 20 dmg.


The combo can be played in multiples turns, and every creature you have in hand can be used to pay for the mana of the combo.
The combo works like this:
- Drop Food Chain
- Drop Matron finding Matron, Play matron.
- Repeat until you reach 4 mana in pool with a Matron in play
- Find Lightning Crafter with the last matron and play it, championing matron
- Sac Crafter (RRRRR in pool), matron triggers finding Kiki-Jiki
- Play Kiki-Jiki
- Copy Matron for Lightning Crafter
- Sacrifice the original Matron for RRRR
___REPEAT___
- Play Crafter, championing Kiki
- Sacrifice Crafter with Food Chain
- Kiki comes into play untapped
- Copy matron for Crafter
___END___
- When you have no more Crafters in the deck, Kiki copies matron for Kiki-Jiki
___REPEAT___
- Sacrifice Kiki Jiki with Food Chain
- Play Kiki-Jiki
- Copy Matron for Kiki
___END___
When you have no more Kiki in the deck, Kiki copies matron for Pyromancer. (If you need to avoid manaburn you can just Matron->Matron->Matron->Pyromancer)
- At this point you have 5-8 hasty copies of matron.
- Play Pyromancer (sac kiki if you don't have enough mana)
- Attack with 5-8 hasty 4/1 Matrons for >20 damage.

[georgjorge]

It's also worth noting that you can make Aluren + Recruiter immune to removal (if they have only one) just by adding one "junk" card. Instead of getting Man-O-War, search for a second Recruiter, then Dream Stalker. Stalker doesn't target, so you can get either of the recruiters if he removes the other. Get the second Stalker, then get Harpy, which also doesn't target so it too can get either of the Stalkers if the other is removed.

The "junk" is still four though, because you don't need the Ghitu Slinger you mentioned. Infinite life + your whole graveyard (you WILL have a Witness in there somewhere) should be enough for the win.

Hmm...this combo is seriously underplayed, I think. It is two mana cheaper than Painter (and immune to creature removal), and only one mana more expensive than Breakfast (but immune to graveyard or creature removal, and with less junk). It can also somewhat combat CBalance, Trinisphere etc since you can get a Harmonic Sliver with a Recruiter.

[georgjorge]

Oh, and of course there's Swan combo, only 2/6/0 if you're content with drawing your whole deck, and 2/8/1 if you kill with Conflagrate.

- Grave dependency: No
- Needleability: No
- Stiflabilitiy: Yes
- Forceability: Yes
- Wastelandability: No
- Swordsability:Yes
- Disenchantability:No
- Chaliceability: Maybe (at two)

[BlindMage]

Skill Borrower+Time Vault+Sensei's Divining Top: 3/3/4

Infinite turns. My apologies if this has already been posted. I looked but didn't see it.

Grave dependency: No
Needleability: Yes
Stiflabilitiy: Yes, but only delays it for a turn.
Forceability: Yes, but not once it's been started.
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: Yes
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: No

[rufus]

"compact" combos

Intuition + Mesmeric Orb

2/6/8+

The other 8 cards are 4 Fatestichers + Dread Return and a way to win (Karmic, Kiki, Pester).

someone should figure out a more compact kill, because the ability to have mesmeric orb on the table, then intuition for 3 Fatestichers, seems awesome.

Also cool in that you might just randomly mill the fatestichers with the orb.

Oh, and just because it's funny:
Grave dependency: Yes
Needleability: Yes
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: Yes
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: X=2


Other infinite tapping/untapping options are:
Puresight Merrow + Paradise Mantle
Fatestitcher + Second Wind
Bassalt Monolith

Wake Thrasher has potential as a backup wincon.

[GreenOne]

Oh, and of course there's Swan combo, only 2/6/0 if you're content with drawing your whole deck, and 2/8/1 if you kill with Conflagrate.
I don't get it. You draw a good piece of your deck, then discard to 7 discarding conflagrate, then on the next turn play another Chain of Plasma, draw 13 cards and play conflagrate?

In short, how do you put conflagrate in your graveyard before discarding to 7 (so you have to combo another time to deal 20 dmg)

[JeroenC]

Chain of Plasma deals 3 damage to target creature or player. Then that player or that creature's controller may discard a card. If the player does, he or she may copy this spell and may choose a new target for that copy.

Discard it to Chain?

[GreenOne]

Discard it to Chain?
My Bad.

[Kuma]

Does anyone know of a two-card combo that can kill multiple players in one turn? Bonus points for the cards being creatures.

[KillemallCFH]

Does anyone know of a two-card combo that can kill multiple players in one turn? Bonus points for the cards being creatures.Does Kiki Jiki + Pestermite/Sky Hussar count? Are you allowed to attack multiple players in multiplayer?

[GreenOne]

Does anyone know of a two-card combo that can kill multiple players in one turn? Bonus points for the cards being creatures.

WARNING: Your friends will punch you in the face for running those.

What comes into mind is:
Aluren + Imperial Recruiter and then go for a Ghitu Slinger kill
Lots of creatures involved, and lot of chaff in the deck. Cost:2GG

Doomsday + Sensei's Divining Top
Cost: 2BBB+draw 4 mana (BBB for Infernal Contract or 2U for Meditate)
Doomsday stack:
[Top]
Draw4
Lion's Eye Diamond
Helm of Awakening
Sensei's Divining Top
Brain Freeze / Grapeshot


How it Works:

Tap SDT to draw Draw4. Play Draw4 drawing SDT, LED, Helm of Awakening, SDT. Play LED. Play Helm of Awakening. Play both SDTs. Break LED for UUU or RRR (depending on whether you are using Brain Freeze or Grapeshot). Tap SDT to draw Brain Freeze / Grapeshot. Tap SDT to draw SDT. Play SDT. Repeat until you have the desired storm count. Play your win condition.

There's also:

Well I've been having plenty of fun with [B]Kiki-Jiki + Lightning Crafter for infinite damage. Something like:

2-3/3-10/goblins?
It's pretty simple to do, you just need a Kiki-Jiki in play before playing lightning crafter as well as a sacrifice outlet of some sort (Food Chain, Skirk Prospector, etc). If you've anything to remove to it then you might as well, but otherwise with the Champion trigger on the stack you can copy crafter removing kiki jiki, deal 3 to the head, sacrifice the copy and repeat the process. Sharphshooter also works as an alternative to a sacrifice outlet with lightning crafter copies killing themselves.
If you're interested at his one, you can look at the Goblin Champions (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12248) thread.

Enduring Renewal + Goblin Bombardment (2/6/1) can be found here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=202730&postcount=50).
Bomberman:3/4/0 here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=202849&postcount=58).
Stuffy Doll/Guilty Conscience: (2/6/0)

Rofellos+Staff of Domination+5 forests
Gain infinite life, draw your deck, make infinite mana, than play a red mana source (can be petal) and something like Meteor Shower.
Works with priest of titania+4 elves too.


There are some number of infinite combos for many colors. It depends on which colors you want to run.

[rufus]

Does anyone know of a two-card combo that can kill multiple players in one turn? Bonus points for the cards being creatures.

Are you looking for a Tooth & Nail finish?

Magus of the Future/Skill Borrower + Phyrexian Devourer.

Magus of the Future is probably preferable in the sense that it can finish in the same turn. From there, the deck can finish with stuff like 1GW for LED, Auriok Salvages and Helix Pinnacle. Alternatively, 1WB for Disciple instead of Pinnacle.... There may be leaner options.

So it works out to:
10 mana, 1 card in hand, 5 cards in deck

[chokin]

Are you looking for a Tooth & Nail finish?

Magus of the Future/Skill Borrower + Phyrexian Devourer.

Magus of the Future is probably preferable in the sense that it can finish in the same turn. From there, the deck can finish with stuff like 1GW for LED, Auriok Salvages and Helix Pinnacle. Alternatively, 1WB for Disciple instead of Pinnacle.... There may be leaner options.

So it works out to:
10 mana, 1 card in hand, 5 cards in deck

Traditionally, Pyrite Spellbomb is used in unison with LED+Auriok Salvagers

Also, I'm throwing a combo into the mix:
Magus of the Future/Future Sight+Helm of Awakening/Etherium Sculptor+Sensei's Divining Top is an infinite draw engine. The Future allows you to play the topdeck. Helm/Sculptor allows freeplay of the SDT and the SDT is the draw.

It's expensive as shit though. 7-8 mana to do it, 3 cards required, and the rest of the combo could be practically anything.

[GreenOne]

Are you looking for a Tooth & Nail finish?

Magus of the Future/Skill Borrower + Phyrexian Devourer.

Magus of the Future is probably preferable in the sense that it can finish in the same turn. From there, the deck can finish with stuff like 1GW for LED, Auriok Salvages and Helix Pinnacle. Alternatively, 1WB for Disciple instead of Pinnacle.... There may be leaner options.

So it works out to:
10 mana, 1 card in hand, 5 cards in deck
I don't get how it works.
You play Tooth and Nail, putting Magus of the future and Phyrexian Devourer into play.
Now you can play your first card of your library. Let's suppose it's not a combo piece, for example, another Tooth.
You then remove it from the game putting devourer ability on the stack.
Repeat the process until you find, say, the auriok.
You can't remove it. The stack empties and devourer dies (power greater than 7).
Now you have to pay 3W to play the auriok (not 1WG or whatever).
Future sight reveals some chaff you can't pay for (Tooth, but even another card, like force, discard, brainstorm, whatever) and your combo finishes.

Can you explain how the combo works? I don't get it.

[rufus]

I don't get how it works.
You play Tooth and Nail, putting Magus of the future and Phyrexian Devourer into play.
...
You can't remove it. The stack empties and devourer dies (power greater than 7).
...
Can you explain how the combo works? I don't get it.

You're right. I was substituting Devourer for for Mindlash without thinking it through adequately, and misread Salvagers.

Skill Borrower + Devourer with Multiple Kiki-Jiki and Fanatic in the deck still works, but isn't fizzle proof, since it's possible to page through all of the KJs without hitting a Fanatic.

It's better to just use the Reveillark Loop:
Pull - Protean Hulk + Carrion Feeder
Sack Hulk use trigger to pull Body Double (5) && Goblin Fanatic (1) -> Sack Shapeshifter/Body Double (Protean Hulk) for Reveillark (5)
Then the loop is:
Sack Fanatic for Damage
Sack Reveillark copy to feeder
Use Reveillark's leaves play trigger to put Body Double & Fanatic back into play.

So really, that's
7/1/5 for Tooth & Nail or
7/2/3 for Hardcasting Protean Hulk & Carrion Feeder

[MSC]

Time Vault Combo: 2/8/0


Time Vault is banned in Legacy...

[GreenOne]

Time Vault is banned in Legacy...
Yeah, but at that time it wasn't (and it didn't work like it does now, no Vault+Voltaic key possible).

[rufus]

How about:
Griffon Canyon + Fatestitcher + Artificial Evolution

[Cire]

How about

Pantopic Mirror + Savour the moment?

8 colorless mana and wait a turn...and you have infinite turns...the win con could be anything, you don't have an untap step, so you just play every other land/creature/combo in your deck and win that way....

Bonuses over other combos...

you could also play Temporal Spring with the mirror for 8 colorless mana and wait a turn ... your opponent loses a permanent every turn and never ever draw another card...

so this combo had redundancy ... and half the combo is blue so its pitchable to Fow

Cons:

Well its 8 mana...2 more than painter... AND you have to wait a turn and hope you the mirror isn't destroyed... the good news is the combo lends itself to control decks with heavy blue, and if you have CB in the deck you would have plenty of 3 mana cards.

----

Probably still a shitty combo but i found it pretty interesting...

Also yes i know it also doesn't win you when you play it, but infinite turn and your opponent losing permanents and never drawing a card...are both pretty close..

[Infinitium]

DNA Combo (courtesy of Team Chimera):

2*/5**/1***

DNA features Spellweaver Helix imprinting Life From the Loam and Time Warp in the graveyard (double helix; get it?), thus turning a second Life From the Loam in hand into a 1G Timewalk. With Dredge. That recurs lands to use for whatever recursive beaters/card drawing shenanigans you please. It then proceeds to kill the opponent by cool-induced heartattack.

*Technically it also requires 2 specific cards in a GY to work, however it can be set up by either Intuition for Loam/Loam/Warp with Helix in hand OR an Intuition for Helix/Loam/(Warp or Loam) with Academy Ruins in play and Warp/LftL in hand (which in turn is easily set up by an earlier Intuition for Loam/Academy/X, where X is usually Engineered Explosives, Raven's Crime or Wasteland depending on the occasion), which means that the combo in practice usually boils down to Helix + Intuition or 2xIntuition, although this can vary depending on what was drawn into.

**Although it helps having 6 lands in play including Academy Ruins for tutoring up Helix eot and immediatly going off next turn.

***Helix itself. I play this in a UGB Intuition shell running a singleton Helix (rather simular to how Control Slaver tutors up stuff with Intuition eot and wins). The Time Warp can be "cycled" for free once the deck reaches 5 mana and having 2 Loams isn't bad in the least. The deck is also required to run either some sort of recursive way to kill the opponent or Cycling Lands/Cephalid Coliseum to draw real cards off Loam.

Pros:
*"EOT Intuition, untap, Helix, LftL, solitaire magic, win."
*Wins through the vast majority of board positions.
*Non-creature win condition.
*Can fetch disruption/protection with the first Intuition.
*RavenLoam blends into the combo seamlessly, rendering counterspells/artifact hate somewhat ineffective.

Cons:
*Rather slow (usually turn 6+. It can be done turn 5 with a godhand, or turn 4 if you use 2x Raven's Crime along with a singleton Loam and draw opening 10's like a champ).
*Graveyard hate is a bitch (although the combo itself is easily sided out).

[georgjorge]

That combo isn't really 2/5/1. If you need a Loam and Time Warp already in the grave, then it's a 4-card-combo (Loam, Loam, Warp, Helix) for quite some mana since you need to cast those cards first. If you set it up with Intuition, then it's

2/8/0-1

with Intuition for Loam+Loam+Warp, cast Warp, cast Helix, cast Loam. It actually requires 13 mana, but you can use your mana twice with Warp, though you HAVE to have five mana in play for that already (not that easy, unless you cast Loam first for another two mana). If you Intuition up Helix with Ruins, it gets a lot more expensive.

I like the combo, but when I tried it it was too expensive for my taste, and I went for Cruel Ultimatum and 20+ sorceries in the deck instead (Ponder, Sleight, Duress, Innocent Blood, Land Grant etc) so I could cast Intuition for Gigapede + Ultimatum + whatever sorcery I had in hand, then resolve Ultimatum with Helix. No infinite combo, but still a powerful one, and Helix could also be used to imprint something like Ponder + Innocent Blood for long-term advantage.

[Infinitium]

It isn't strictly an infinite combo since you still have to perform each turn manually, and there's only so many cards in the library. 10+ turns is usually enough to either win or find enough stuff to wipe the opponents board and hand though so yeah.

I wouldn't call it a 13-mana combo either (although it technically is) since it get to untap lands twice midcombo and the opponent is confined to instant speed and whatever mana he had when it started, and opponent will usually try to counter the Intuition (barring Extirpate or Tormod-baiting) leaving the DNA player free to counterwar or simply play on. Off a godhand it can also go off with as few as 3 lands in play (still on turn 5 though; turn 3 Intuition for Loam/Warp/Gigapede with Loam/Helix in hand). Not that it's a good option most of the time, but it's there nonetheless.

[gregory]

could anyone explain me the helm of obedience / leyline of the void combo?
I dont get it :frown:

[luma]

could anyone explain me the helm of obedience / leyline of the void combo?
I dont get it :frown:

With Leyline in play, you activate Helm of Obedience for 1. Helm stops milling when a creature card or X cards are put into graveyard, but because Leyline removes them from the game instead, Helm will just keep on milling until the library is empty (Helm counts cards that go to the graveyard, Leyline says that no card goes there.).

[BullBar]

DNA Combo (courtesy of Team Chimera):

2*/5**/1***

DNA features Spellweaver Helix imprinting Life From the Loam and Time Warp in the graveyard (double helix; get it?), thus turning a second Life From the Loam in hand into a 1G Timewalk. With Dredge. That recurs lands to use for whatever recursive beaters/card drawing shenanigans you please. It then proceeds to kill the opponent by cool-induced heartattack.


Imprinting Raven's Crime and Time Warp seems better, in a deck running LftL anyway. Cheaper setup, disruption included, only need to dredge every 3 turns or so - giving you a lot more time to beat down with that Sakura Tribe Elder. *system: player lost*


A couple of Mono-R gobbo players over here have been using Skirk Prospector/Lightning Crafter/Kiki-Jiki to combo off. A gobbo deck need only run each as singles, although extra Prospectors are useful enough. Matron and Ringleader put it together easily.

[GreenOne]

A couple of Mono-R gobbo players over here have been using Skirk Prospector/Lightning Crafter/Kiki-Jiki to combo off. A gobbo deck need only run each as singles, although extra Prospectors are useful enough. Matron and Ringleader put it together easily.
You also just need a sacrifice effect, so, if you prefer, Food Chain or Sledder can do the job in place of Prospector.

[georgjorge]

After the errata...Chance Encounter + Frenetic Efreet: You can build up a stack of lots of Efreet activations. The first flip already decides whether Efreet dies or phases out, so the others won't have any effect, but are carried out nevertheless, and thus count for Chance Encounter.

2/7/0

and not vulnerable to creature or graveyard removal. The upkeep trigger of Encounter can be Stifled, which will only delay the win for one turn.

[xTrainx]

Painter's Servant + Forbidden Orchard + Chaotic Backlash

Give them 1/1's. Then all cards = blue/white. Then Backlash them for 20+.

[Julian23]

Survival/Yosei, the Morning Star/Recurring Nightmare

I actually use this combo in the Survival build I got from a friend. First, drop Yosei in the Yard then use Recurring Nightmare to get him back. Use it again to kill Yosei. Once you hit 6 mana you can keep your opponent from untapping.

2/10/1 (assuming you play Survival and activate it two times. If you start the combo with Yosei in the yard the mana cost is reduced to 6)

Sample decklist can be found http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1058

[ykpon]

Magister Sphinx+Wound Reflection

costs millions of mana, so probably can be used only with Cascade+Hypergenesis or Eureka, where it seems to be better than other two cards ones like Kiki + Sky Hussar.

pros:
a) Sphinx is a nice threat by itself unlike Hussar
b) Reflection can be paired with legendary creatures (read with Progenitus) unlike Kiki.
c) Can't be stopped by any creature removal
d) Same with Pithing Needle/Damping Matrix/Suppression Field
e) Same with Propaganda/Ghostly Prison/Ensnaring Bridge

cons:
a) Can be stopped by Disenchant effects, although they still lose some hp and still need a way to deal with a 5/5 flier

[GreenOne]

Magister Sphinx+Wound Reflection
cons:
a) Can be stopped by Disenchant effects, although they still lose some hp and still need a way to deal with a 5/5 flier
b) If your opponent has already less than 20 life then the combo doesn't work. Eg. Turn 1 fetch, opponent goes to 19. Play Sphinx opponent goes to 10 (lose 9 life), play Wound Reflection, opponent goes to 1.

This also works with Hidetsugu's Second Rite (always the fetch problem).

[coraz86]

What about Mana Severance+Mind Funeral (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=179599)? 2 cards/5 mana/0 chaff, although (like Trix and Painter/Stone) it could be shoehorned into a blue controllish shell. Plus, like Trix, Sapphire Medallion would make it a full turn faster (shaving two mana off).

[hjalte]

What about Mana Severance+Mind Funeral (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=179599)? 2 cards/5 mana/0 chaff, although (like Trix and Painter/Stone) it could be shoehorned into a blue controllish shell. Plus, like Trix, Sapphire Medallion would make it a full turn faster (shaving two mana off).

But Mana Severance only clears out you own library for land and Mind funeral can only hit your opponent.

[GreenOne]

But Mana Severance only clears out you own library for land and Mind funeral can only hit your opponent.
Yeah, otherwise Mana Severance would be huge in tempo decks. First turn stifle your fetch, second turn Mana Severance. Now you have zero lands in your library, and zero lands in play. WTF?

[coraz86]

My bad, I misread Mana Severance. :-( I would still argue that Mind Funeral has some potential in Legacy between the low land counts and the prevalence of fetchlands though. Perhaps not as a primary kill condition, but now that Glimpse the Unthinkable doesn't cost $20 like it did when it was in print, maybe we could toss a list on the budget thread.

[DrJones]

Angel's Grace + Ad Nauseam = Draw your entire library, which I'm pretty sure should be enough to win the game in that same turn.

[coraz86]

I wonder if Erratic Explosion/Draco might again be viable in the right shell, seeing as people are fond of running things that hurt themselves (fetchlands, Thoughtseize, etc.). It'd be pretty funny if anyone could pull it off in a decent tournament

In a casual game, combine it with Gleemax for high hilarity (and possibly a groin shot, but I'd say it's worth it).

[JeroenC]

Thought I'd note something about the first post:

Time Vault Combo: 2/8/0

Mizzium Transreliquat or Rings of Brighthearth + Time Vault allow infinite turns, at which point the win condition is fairly inconsequential as long as we have one. The secondary combo pieces also offer some interesting possibilities... Rings of Brighthearth more so but it is the weaker complement. Another draw is the complete absence of colour requirements.


Since the un-errata, this combo is pretty banned.

[gottfrid]

Here's one that I read about somewhere and built a deck around:

argothian elder + maze of ith

This allows you to get infinite mana during your attack phase. This, in turn can be used to almost anything. I will not even suggest the obvious but bad inf-mana wincons lke ambassador L., helix pinnace etc.

on the other hand loam makes sure you can do some digging with oona's grace + brainstorms, usually enough to find you flash of insight. Flash for a million into a single crop rotation which finds a single shivan gorge FTW. Then, I realized that the deck does not want to play red.

Mishra's factory if attacking together with the druid can pump itself infinitely large though, and if you're playing a control deck just stacking your deck after a big flash of insight is good enough to win. I also run springjack pasture allows me to make infinite goats and gain infinite life in the process.
None of the cards are complete "chaff". However this is really sensitive to removal so make sure to play it in a control deck where all the cards are good on their own!

Actually I'll go ahead and post the list in new/dev decks forum... check it out there

[Mark Sun]

With Leyline in play, you activate Helm of Obedience for 1. Helm stops milling when a creature card or X cards are put into graveyard, but because Leyline removes them from the game instead, Helm will just keep on milling until the library is empty (Helm counts cards that go to the graveyard, Leyline says that no card goes there.).

Is there currently a deck that implements this? I feel like it could be viable, I can't really comment on its fragility compared to Painter/Grindstone.

[m03]

Post M10:

Hive Mind (in play) + Pact of Negation (countering anything on your turn).

They either pay 3UU at their upkeep, or they lose the game.

[Malchar]

Post M10:

Hive Mind (in play) + Pact of Negation (countering anything on your turn).

They either pay 3UU at their upkeep, or they lose the game.

Pact of the Titan also works well. It has the same converted mana cost (4R) and can be cast without a target. It doesn't matter that it's off-color since you never plan to pay the cost. However, the advantage with Pact of Negation is that you can protect the combo with multiples. Use Tolaria West to tutor for Pacts. The hard part is playing Hive Mind.

"Hive Mind + Pact" Combo

Mana: 6
Parts: 2
Chaff: 0

If I got this right it has the same stats as painter-grindstone. However, it takes colored mana, and it all has to be paid at once.

needle = no effect
stifle = super effective
chalice = no effect
counterbalance = no effect
graveyard-hate = no effect
force of will = super effective

[fearphage]

Disclaimer: This combo is compact in very few contexts.

Some variants of Survival decks already play Anger and Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary. Even fewer play Krovikan Horror as Squee #2. With that in mind, adding 2 cards can allow for an infinite, sorcery-speed combo: Academy Rector + Enduring Renewal.

This is sort of like Pebbles in a way. If the combo is unclear:
Krovikan Horror, Rofellos, Academy Rector, Mountain, 3 forests in play
Anger in graveyard
Sac Rector to Horror to fetch Enduring Renewal
Tap + sac Rofellos to horror to deal a point of damage to your opponent, it goes back to your hand via Enduring Renewal. Replay it with the floating mana. Wash, rinse, repeat.

I realize this is very situational and can only be played in a Survival shell. However, getting into the setup state in a Survival deck is not far fetched however. So any deck with Rofellos and Anger that can make black (Horror) and white (Rector) could side this in to kill in one turn without needing the red zone. I played this in the sideboard of an old FEB deck.

In a "normal" survival shell, you would need to add 3 cards. Krovikan Horror, Academy Rector, Enduring Renewal

I'm not sure how the numbers would look but only 2 of the cards are chaff. 3 if you think Horror sucks although it is Squee #2 and sometimes better.

Mana:
If you had to cast all the pieces in one turn (unlikely), 10 mana.
The low end of that is 2 for Rofellos.
The most likely amount is the 4 to cast Academy Rector to keep the surprise factor. Rector is a scary thing to leave sitting on the board and you want to play it after Krovikan Horror so they don't have an opportunity to send it farming.

Sadly:
Grave dependency: Yes
Needleability: Yes
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: sort of (if they can take you below 3 forest)
Swordsability: Yes
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: X=2

It is vulnerable to a lot of disruption, but because it's survival, it can answer them all: Dosan the Falling Leaf, Quirion Ranger, Kira, Harmonic Sliver, Qasali Pridemage, etc.

[Jolly_roger]

Parallax nexus+Stifle

Since nexus removes your opponents hand from the game, chances are your stifle will resolve, making the combo safer.

Also if your opponet krosan grips your nexus, you can still stifle the leaves play trigger.

[Dark_Shakuras]

Pact of the Titan also works well. It has the same converted mana cost (4R) and can be cast without a target. It doesn't matter that it's off-color since you never plan to pay the cost. However, the advantage with Pact of Negation is that you can protect the combo with multiples. Use Tolaria West to tutor for Pacts. The hard part is playing Hive Mind.

Mana: 6
Parts: 2
Chaff: 0

If I got this right it has the same stats as painter-grindstone. However, it takes colored mana, and it all has to be paid at once.

needle = no effect
stifle = super effective
chalice = super effective
graveyard-hate = no effect
force of will = super effective

Pact is nicer than Titan cause their only target is your Pact and thus you don't have to pay the 3UU?

[Dark_Cynic87]

Is there currently a deck that implements this? I feel like it could be viable, I can't really comment on its fragility compared to Painter/Grindstone.

I've used the LotV-Helm combo in a UBg Intuition-Tezz Stax Hybrid list. I won turn 4 protected on several occasions. That's not something Stax does. Ever. It worked well. Plus, it had MD GY hate, and I could Helm myself to pseudo-tutor for more artifacts via LftL and Academy Ruins, which were both easily attainable via Intuition. So much sick synergy.

Pce,

--DC

[Cire]

Pact of the Titan also works well. It has the same converted mana cost (4R) and can be cast without a target. It doesn't matter that it's off-color since you never plan to pay the cost. However, the advantage with Pact of Negation is that you can protect the combo with multiples. Use Tolaria West to tutor for Pacts. The hard part is playing Hive Mind.

Mana: 6
Parts: 2
Chaff: 0

If I got this right it has the same stats as painter-grindstone. However, it takes colored mana, and it all has to be paid at once.

needle = no effect
stifle = super effective
chalice = super effective
graveyard-hate = no effect
force of will = super effective

chalice and counter balance has no effect.

If they counter your pact with a chalice at 0 or counterbalance with a land on top, your spell is countered but still played, thus your opponent copies the spell and since he doesn't play it his copy isn't countered and he still has to pay the upkeep

[Dark_Cynic87]

Then I see no reason NOT to play Chalice. In fact, you probably should. That way, you really don't have to worry about the upkeep and they lose for sure.

Pce,

--DC

[Malchar]

If you counter Pact of Negation, you don't have to pay for it. Therefore, Chalice will ruin the combo at zero.

Edit: I'm wrong. I'll change the original post.

[Cire]

Another combo similar to pandaburst

If you cast Replenish (or Open the Vaults) with Sanguin Blood & Illusions of Granduer in your graveyard you win...

[sco0ter]

Another combo similar to pandaburst

If you cast Replenish (or Open the Vaults) with Sanguin Blood & Illusions of Granduer in your graveyard you win...

Fixed:
Sanguin Bond (http://magiccards.info/m10/en/111.html) & Illusions of Grandeur (http://magiccards.info/ia/en/79.html)

[Pastorofmuppets]

Well the Hive Mind/Pact combo has a few things to help it when you put your mind to it. It can be played alongside Iron Maiden (Platinum Angel+Pacts)
Or you can enchant your opponent with Parallax Haze.

[Lego]

Pact is nicer than Titan cause their only target is your Pact and thus you don't have to pay the 3UU?

You need a target to be able to play Pact of Negation. Their Pact can also target whatever your Pact targeted.

This is why Pact of the Titan is a decent choice, because it doesn't require you to have a target. Intervention Pact and Summoner's Pact also work, neither requiring you to have a target. It's simply a matter of which they're least likely to be able to pay the price for.

Incidentally, you're hoping to win the game, so if all goes well the cost of the pact is irrelevant, as long as your opponent can't pay it.

[Malchar]

the problem with hive mind pact is that hive mind costs more to cast than the pacts do (assuming that they are paid for). using something like dark ritual would be mandatory to make this combo fast enough. however, a deck packed with mana acceleration is probably better of using ad nauseum as a win condition since it costs less and has comparable required components. the great irony is that some ad nauseum builds use pact of negation as a legitimate card.

the best way to use hive mind pact combo would be in a control shell that contains other blue cards. it's a nice quick win condition like paimter's servant grindstone, but it's probably harder to stop and contains less flack if pact of negation is used normally. one way to remove the mana cost/pact payment contradiction is to play multiple pacts in one turn, and this is more achievable in a slow control deck.

[Barsoom]

http://magicdeckvortex.com/DDB/locket_combo_2007_extended.htm

It's in extended, so with the Legacy cardpool, it could have some potential.

Grave dependency: Yes
Needleability: Yes
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: No
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: Yes

I'd use Chromatic Stars and Spheres for some deck thinning as well as more hits at cc1 with a "blind" counterbalance.

Can this have some potential?

4 Locket of Yesterdays
4 Chromatic Star
4 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Standstill
4 Force of Will
4 Artificer's Intuition
4 Counterbalance
2 Humility
1 Moat
1 Wrath of God

4 Mishra's Factory
2 Faerie Conclave
2 Mutavault
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
2 Island


is it just too janky to leave behind? Remember, this is just a VERY fast decklist I just came up with. If it has a little bit of potential, I'll test and post within a couple of days.

Someone maybe worked on this combo? i'm interested in results and decklists if he wants to share.

[Papillon]

You need a target to be able to play Pact of Negation. Their Pact can also target whatever your Pact targeted.

So their Pact counters that spell, and your Pact is countered on resolution due to not having a legal target, and you don't have to pay the cost.

[Offler]

look at Magosi, The Watervell. combine it with Clockspinning. Two cards, Five lands in play... Infinite turns.

[JeroenC]

Doesn't work. Clockspinning needs another counter on the permanent to work.

[Happy Gilmore]

look at Magosi, The Watervell. combine it with Clockspinning. Two cards, Five lands in play... Infinite turns.

you need to have 6 lands because Magosi requires U to use. Also one of the drawbacks is that it requires you to first skip your turn.

[DownSyndromeKarl]

that combo could work, if you skipped your turn to put a counter on it in the first place. Then used Clockspinning to add a second counter before you remove one to start taking extra turns. Is it combo? Sure. Is it really worth it? No.

[JeroenC]

That combo won't work, as you have to bounce the land to take a turn and by doing that, you lose all counters. RTFC.

[DownSyndromeKarl]

haha, and you couldn't have said that to start?
Its a shitty card that will never see play, so I didn't read it carefully, sue me.

[Infinitium]

Gifts Ungiven -> Vampire Hexmage/Dark Depths/Grim Discovery/Regrowth

1-card 4-mana tutor into a 4-mana win by 20/20 two turns later. Also the only truly dead card in that pile is Dark Depths. Decent.

[JeroenC]

haha, and you couldn't have said that to start?
Its a shitty card that will never see play, so I didn't read it carefully, sue me.

RTFC was mostly intended for the people who thought it was a combo.

[Offler]

oops. i didnt noticed that it returns to hand :)

Clockspinning can work when there is a counter on it, but while it returns it wont work.

[deadlock]

Thopter Foundry + Sword of the Meek, backed up by something like Academy ruins and maybe Chrome Mox, so that you only need Foundry in play with Sword in the graveyard.
What do you think - how good is this against decks like Zoo?

[Bigface]

Add Carnival of Souls for infinite tokens, or Time Sieve for infinite turns, or both.

Also, Carnival of Souls allows you to combo out really fast.

[Aggro_zombies]

Thopter Foundry + Sword of the Meek, backed up by something like Academy ruins and maybe Chrome Mox, so that you only need Foundry in play with Sword in the graveyard.
What do you think - how good is this against decks like Zoo?
Seems too slow and too vulnerable to Qasali Pridemage main and Krosan Grip from the side. You'd need to have another plan in case you couldn't get Foundry to stick.

There's also the fact that it costs two mana and isn't a creature, making it rather difficult to tutor for.

EDIT: Enlightened Tutor is just about it. Could be workable in a :w::u::b: Counterbalance deck that wins without Tarmogoyf, but there's not much else good in those colors to run after you add Swords and Bob. Esper Charm? Seems workable against control and Counterbalance, but awful elsewhere. Disciple? Maybe, but that pushes you towards traditional Affinity, which has no use for this combo.

Your best bet may be :g::u::b:, using Tarmogoyf and Maelstrom Pulse, along with Dark Confidant and Counterbalance. You'd need to diversify your curve, though. Going straight for this combo seems weak since it's not like Painter-Stone where both halves have several cards you can use as tutors (Trinket Mage and Imperial Recruiter).

[Illissius]

Add Carnival of Souls for infinite tokens, or Time Sieve for infinite turns, or both.

Also, Carnival of Souls allows you to combo out really fast.

Woah. 10 years later and we finally have a use for Carnival of Souls?

[IXEquilibrium]

Null Rod + Mycosynth Lattice is essentially a game ending combo if you have a better board position.

I have a copy of each of these cards in my semi-casual B/U/r Goblin Welder deck. It is very rare that I end up hardcasting the whole combo, although I guess you could if you really felt like it. Generally I'll hardcast Null Rod and Welder in Mycosynth Lattice in the same turn. It's not terribly hard to disrupt (any creature kill or stifle will do it if you are relying on welder). Having Anger in the grave helps a lot though since Welder can activate immediately.

I usually only go for the combo if I'm using the deck in multiplayer (things like Inkwell Leviathan and Platinum Angel tend to be more useful in 1-on-1). A single copy of Darksteel Collossus makes it so I don't get decked if I have have cleared the board prior to playing the combo.

[Barook]

Woah. 10 years later and we finally have a use for Carnival of Souls?
Yeah, hell has frozen over.

A nice little interaction I noticed yesterday:

Kira, Great Glass-Spinner + Ethersworn Canonist

It makes your creatures immune to non-permanent spot removal because they can only play one spell per turn - which is blocked by Kira.

[Phoenix Ignition]

It makes your creatures immune to non-permanent spot removal because they can only play one spell per turn - which is blocked by Kira.

Sort of, but they still could use Firespout, Pyroclasm(okay anything like that, not going to list the rest), Wrath of God, etc.

[OneBigSquirrelGod]

Easy.. You run:
Ashnods Altar
Banefire
Enduring Renewal
Ornithopter

You sac the thopter to the altar, comes back, sac get infinite mana and Banefire them outta the Game

Or you could do the
Ashnods Altar
Fecundity
Saproling Cluster

You discard, make a guy, sac the guy, get 2 mana, draw a card from fecundity, pay one, repeat, sift through your whole deck, and get close to enough mana to Banefire'm outta the game!

[rufus]

Not really a combo, but you'll typically get to swing for the win on the following turn:
Skill Borrower + Congregation At Dawn -> Phyrexian Devourer x2 Jodah's Avenger

Activate the Devourer Abilities, then use The Avenger's Ability to keep the power below 7. (Once before the first Devour resolves, 6 times before the second.) On the following turn, use Jodah's Avenger for Shadow & Double Strike to swing for the win.

[Reverend Damaged]

Not really a combo, but you'll typically get to swing for the win on the following turn:
Skill Borrower + Congregation At Dawn -> Phyrexian Devourer x2 Jodah's Avenger

Activate the Devourer Abilities, then use The Avenger's Ability to keep the power below 7. (Once before the first Devour resolves, 6 times before the second.) On the following turn, use Jodah's Avenger for Shadow & Double Strike to swing for the win.


Wouldn't you just activate the first Devourer, then on the stack, activate the second one's ability, leaving you with just the Avenger on top before she even gets the counters, saving her?

[xTrainx]

3/7(9)/0 - I think

Not entirely sure what chaff refers to, but I believe it is zero because all of the cards you need are specifically for the combo.

Bazaar Trader/Immortal Coil/Bojuka Bog or Relic of Progenitus.

Not quite as much mana as it seems because it can be paid in pieces.

Give them Coil and then nuke their graveyard.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Woah. 10 years later and we finally have a use for Carnival of Souls?

Haha! Fecundity for infinite draw, Disciple of the Vault for infinite damage.

[rufus]

Wouldn't you just activate the first Devourer, then on the stack, activate the second one's ability, leaving you with just the Avenger on top before she even gets the counters, saving her?

There's a self-destruct clause on the devourer's ability.
Phyrexian Devourer

Otherwise, you could just go with Devourer x3 and swing for the win.

[Reverend Damaged]

Oh, I saw that. I didn't realize the new wording on it makes the self-destruct clause part of the activated ability rather than a static effect.

[bruno_tiete]

Congregation at Dawn combos on itself via Borrower/Kiki-Jiki/Mogg Fanatic. The problem is untapping with Borrower alive.

If you have Borrower on the table, you can Congregate Kiki/Mogg during upkeep, go infinite Borrowers, draw and then sacrifice a bunch of them to ping the opponent dead. With a Top, you could pull this one off at instant speed for one extra colorless mana.

In fact, I believe this would be fairly strong in EDH.

[phonics]

celestial convergence/ vampire hexmage 2/6/1

similar to hex/depths, except that it uses an enchantment instead of a land, but wins off a trigger instead of attacks. sac hexmage to remove the counters on celestial convergence causing the player with highest life to win. the chaff being something like martyr of sands or other cheap life gain to make it work. not sure how easy/hard it would be to get more life than an opponent (ez vs combo hard vs aggro?) but it could be fun.


Grave dependency: n
Needleability: y
Stiflabitiliy: y
Forceability: Y
Wastelandability: n
Swordsability: n
Disenchantability: y
Chaliceability: not really

[death]

Celestial Convergence

Or just throw it in Life.dec and call it an extra win con.

[Malchar]

3/7(9)/0 - I think

Not entirely sure what chaff refers to, but I believe it is zero because all of the cards you need are specifically for the combo.

Bazaar Trader/Immortal Coil/Bojuka Bog or Relic of Progenitus.

Not quite as much mana as it seems because it can be paid in pieces.

Give them Coil and then nuke their graveyard.

This looks correct, but for the record, chaff are cards that you need for the combo, but drawing them doesn't help your combo go off. For example, natural order progenitus requires 2 cards to go off (natural order and a green creature) and it has a chaff of 1 (progenitus).

[dameus]

Gotta take Angel's Grace / Ad Nauseam off the list.
Angel's Grace prevents damage; AdN is life loss. Not the same thing.

[DrJones]

But Angel's Grace prevents you from losing the game, it doesn't matter that you are at negative life. You still draw your whole library because life loss is not life payment.

[kinda]

There's a soft lock with eldrazi monument, donate, and forbidden orchard.

[dahcmai]

Go inifinite life with New Leyline of Vitality, Saffi eriksdotter, and Loyal Retainers. Harder to break up than the old Soul warden route also.

[median]

Go inifinite life with New Leyline of Vitality, Saffi eriksdotter, and Loyal Retainers. Harder to break up than the old Soul warden route also.
If you use crypt champion instead of retainers you have projectX (standard deck from a while back)

[Iranon]

Just as a reminder: I'm not including 3-card combos. 2.5-card combos (2 specific ones, 1 of a large subset) would require a hard sell... I'm explicitly not including 'Infernal Tutor + double Lion's Eye Diamond' for an Ill-Gotten-Gains/Tendrils loop', even though replacing one of the LED with other fast mana just increases the initial mana requirements to a still-reasonable amount.

[martyr]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but Boggart Birth Rite + another in the graveyard gets you a storm count equal to the black mana you're willing to commit to it. Doesn't seem to be a useful plug into any current decks, but it seemed worth mentioning.

[(nameless one)]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but Boggart Birth Rite + another in the graveyard gets you a storm count equal to the black mana you're willing to commit to it. Doesn't seem to be a useful plug into any current decks, but it seemed worth mentioning.

I don't think that works because as Boggart Birth Rite resolves, the card itself will not be in the graveyard. It will only work if you have a second copy in the yard.

[Broham]

I don't think that works because as Boggart Birth Rite resolves, the card itself will not be in the graveyard. It will only work if you have a second copy in the yard.

He said "+ another". Pretty sure Martyr meant 2 copies of Boggart Birth Rite.

[Gocho]

It's better with 2x Sensei's Divining Top. You can pay with colorless and draw your top card.

[martyr]

Yeah, I did. You'd have to be willing to Intuition for them + something, or rip through your deck a TON for it to be reasonable, or use Goblin Matron, and even then it gets eaten by graveyard hate. But, storm for a single B mana is about as cheap as it gets.


It's better with 2x Sensei's Divining Top. You can pay with colorless and draw your top card.

Yeah, good point. I was going to point out the tutors that can get Birth Rite, but Top has Trinket Mage and Enlightened tuor. Way to ruin my day :(

[rufus]

Buried Alive (-> Necrotic Ooze, Phyrexian Devourer, Triskelion) + Reanimate. Though it does require other 1-2 cc cards in the deck.

[xTrainx]

The Buried Alive combo mentioned above is...

2/4/3 I believe.

[whienot]

Academy Rector + Diabolic Intent

2/6/2

Rector gets Hive Mind, while Intent can find the Pact of choice. Alternatively, Rector/Intent can pull Near-Death Experience and Plunge into Darkness.

Slow, but funny.

[Mr. Safety]

If I understand the formula correctly, it goes Cards/Mana/Support Cards

Not sure if these have been mentioned yet:

Pestermite + Splinter Twin 2/6/0

This is a more efficient form of Kiki-Mite. You can cast Pestermite during your opponent's EOT, then cast Splinter Twin targeting Pestermite on your turn, tap the Pestermite to make a copy of it, untap the original, repeat to make infinite hasty Pestermites. Luckily you're playing blue, so you can include Force of Will and Pact of Negation for protection. You can also tap the combo in response to removal and just stack the hell out of it.

Fyndhorn Elder + Freed from the Real + Orochi Leafcaller 3/6/2

Infinite mana engine, but horribly weak to removal. The traditional support card is Petals of Insight to sift through your entire library for a single Banefire. Any counterspell with x in it like Condescend work well as support, but Force of Will or Pact of Negation are typically better to protect the combo.

Play Fyndhorn Elder and Orochi Leafcaller, then cast Freed from the Real on Fyndhorn Elder. Tap the elder for GG, convert one G to U to untap the elder, repeat. You float 5 mana to play Petals of Insight to look at the top 3 cards of your library, then put them on the bottom and float another 5 mana to replay it if you don't draw Banefire. Sift your entire deck to find your single Banefire FTW. This can also be pulled off in multi-player using Fireball to kill the whole table. Fun stuff, but again, rather weak.

[Gocho]

The opponent can remove Pestermite when you cast Splinter Twin, in response

[Mr. Safety]

Only while Splinter Twin is on the stack...once it resolves, removal is pointless (which is what I meant...sorry if I was unclear) ;)

[Di]

Only while Splinter Twin is on the stack...once it resolves, removal is pointless (which is what I meant...sorry if I was unclear) ;)

blinkblink

...or they just wait until you tap the Pestermite.

[Mr. Safety]

Damn, you're right. I guess countermagic just got about 100% more important, lol.

[rufus]

Fyndhorn Elder + Freed from the Real + Orochi Leafcaller 3/6/2

Infinite mana engine, but horribly weak to removal. The traditional support card is Petals of Insight to sift through your entire library for a single Banefire. Any counterspell with x in it like Condescend work well as support, but Force of Will or Pact of Negation are typically better to protect the combo.


This is ... a bit weak for legacy when it's possible to play stuff like...
Metalworker+Umbral Mantle
Krosan Restorer+Maze of Ith (Threshold Required)
Krosan Restorer/Ley Druid...+Griffin Canyon+Artificial Evolution/Shields of Velis Vel/Trickery Charm

[Morte]

Krosan Restorer+Maze of Ith (Threshold Required)


Maze of Ith untaps only attacking creatures

[Mr. Safety]

This is ... a bit weak for legacy when it's possible to play stuff like...
Metalworker+Umbral Mantle
Krosan Restorer+Maze of Ith (Threshold Required)
Krosan Restorer/Ley Druid...+Griffin Canyon+Artificial Evolution/Shields of Velis Vel/Trickery Charm

I'm sorry, I misunderstood the point of the thread. I thought it was for combos, not neccessarily competitive combos for legacy.