Sleeves both inner and outer

[13b]

Hey guys just wanted to see what everyone is using nowadays for sleeves? In the past I used kmc perfect fits w/ the old style dragonshield.

But i see there have been some changes in quality and variety

For outers I was looking at : Dragonshield matte, KMC hyper matt and Ultrapro pro matte

For inners: dragonshield clear/smoke, KMC perfect fit, or KMC perfect fit hards.

From what i've read the kmc's have dipped in quality while ultra pro is becoming usable.

Thanks guys

[GoblinSettler]

Hey guys just wanted to see what everyone is using nowadays for sleeves? In the past I used kmc perfect fits w/ the old style dragonshield.

But i see there have been some changes in quality and variety

For outers I was looking at : Dragonshield matte, KMC hyper matt and Ultrapro pro matte

For inners: dragonshield clear/smoke, KMC perfect fit, or KMC perfect fit hards.

From what i've read the kmc's have dipped in quality while ultra pro is becoming usable.

Thanks guys

I can't speak to degradation in quality of outer sleeves. But I have had a nice amount of time with the new-ish UltraPro Eclipse sleeves and the KMC Hards.

The Eclipse sleeves open with a great texture and shuffle feel. This declines a bit over time. I have also experienced the color getting nicked along the bottom and sides. This wear is minor, but new to me, compared to other sleeves. Likely due to how they're achieving the two-tone sleeve color. These complaints aside, they're great sleeves. I wish they had the color range available from other types and brands. Hopefully that will grow over time.

KMC Perfect Hard sleeves provide a very durable feel. I imagine something comparable to triple sleeved cards. This feels like a bonus for protecting cards and may help with keeping foils from curling. On the other side, the deck ends up being noticeably thicker than a deck double sleeved in perfect fits. To the point that it may impact your choice in deck box. And the stiffness makes it more difficult to shuffle. This has been most pronounced with sleeves that are already sticky, like the non-matte Dragon Shields. Was not happy with that pairing. I have found the Hards go just fine in KMC Hyper Mats or UltraPro Eclipse.

Perfect Hards come with another annoyance, they have tended to creep up after shuffling and play. So the top of the card ends up *just* poking out of the top. Have found that I need to keep pushing the cards back down into the outer sleeve. It's somewhat manageable in Hyper Mats or Eclipses. It was way too much of an issue with the KMC Hyper Mat Premium sleeves. Those seem a bit shorter than regular Hyper Mat sleeves and the Perfect Hard was always sliding out. To the point I had to adjust cards after each game. (Boo! Otherwise, really liked the Hyper Mat Premium. I'm a sucker for matte front, turns out).

All in all. Happy with KMC Hyper Mat, Hyper Mat Premium, Dragon Shield, and Eclipse outer sleeves. Happy with Perfect Fit and Perfect Hard inner sleeves.

[Sloshthedark]

actually I found Perfect Hards to noticably improve shuffling with less outter sleeve wear due to increased thickness of the individual card there is more space in between thus easier to mash without damage by cards sticking together, it's a bit harder to operate and gives almost highlander sizes, feels good in hand once you get the used to it a bit blind drawing a 7 not recommended, the real downside is my old deck box doesnt fit so I have to carry 2 around and I'm quite afraid I'd mix a perfect fit card in there eventually, which is also a new avenue for cheating btw. resleeving perfect fits is terrible XP but when resleeving outters it feels much safer as corners do not bend... roughly 3 months use, 9,5/11 would recommend, using KMC B matte asbtw outters btw., did not really feel a considerable decrease in quality of those yet, but Im not resleeving all my cards unless those are real garbage tbh

[CabalTherapy]

actually I found Perfect Hards to noticably improve shuffling with less outter sleeve wear due to increased thickness of the individual card there is more space in between thus easier to mash without damage by cards sticking together, it's a bit harder to operate and gives almost highlander sizes, feels good in hand once you get the used to it a bit blind drawing a 7 not recommended, the real downside is my old deck box doesnt fit so I have to carry 2 around and I'm quite afraid I'd mix a perfect fit card in there eventually, which is also a new avenue for cheating btw. resleeving perfect fits is terrible XP but when resleeving outters it feels much safer as corners do not bend... roughly 3 months use, 9,5/11 would recommend, using KMC B matte asbtw outters btw., did not really feel a considerable decrease in quality of those yet, but Im not resleeving all my cards unless those are real garbage tbh

I'm playing the same set up. My rating: 11/13 would recommend as well.

[walked]

I've been using the Ultra Pro Side Load inner sleeves, and the Pro Matte Eclipse for some time now.

Sleeving and day 1-2 shuffle is the best ever. Unfortunately after just a few days, the Eclipse sleeves tend to get a bit sticky and dont shuffle very well.

I'm in the process of testing out the Ultimate Guard Supreme Matte sleeves (in the mail now), and the Pro-Matte (non eclipse) versions.

It's frustrating because the Eclipse sleeves are the best around until they get a bit dirty; at which point theyre pretty mediocre.

[cab0747]

For the past 2 years I have been using the BCW inner sleeves. While about 5/100 are a little too snug, they are about 1/4 the price of KMC perfect fits. Love them.

Four outer sleeves, I have really been liking the Dragonshield matte sleeves. Started with Black but the Ivor and Green apple feel a bit better (and I love the black) and look nice too.

[apistat_commander]

Not to derail, but how necessary is double sleeving? I've always single-sleeved my stuff and saw double sleeving as an uneccessary precaution that was only really necessary if your deck was full of Beta/Japanese foil pimp.

[walked]

Not to derail, but how necessary is double sleeving? I've always single-sleeved my stuff and saw double sleeving as an uneccessary precaution that was only really necessary if your deck was full of Beta/Japanese foil pimp.

For me it's just a matter of very cheap additional insurance. When youre dabbling with $200 - $500+ cards, it seems trivial to spend the extra $5 to double sleeve.

Is it critical? Probably not - does it give some added protection if someone dumps a drink on the table or when you're re-sleeving? Heck yeah. And the burden of doing it is so minimal.

In summary: the cost of doing it is so low that its nice insurance against unexpected damage with basically no downside

[from Cairo]

I'm still using kmc perfect fits as inner sleeves and hareruya v2.0 outter sleeves. No complaints. My collection is sleeved in the inners so I won't be changing to hards or another brand. The hareruya v2.0 are my favorite sleeves and have held up great.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[whocansay]

KMC Perfect Fit inside KMC Hyper Matte for years now.

[Stuart]

So rather than start a new topic, this seems like a good place to ask: for those of you using KMC Perfect Hards, what type of deck box fits your deck? I'm considering resleeving my Vintage deck in Perfect Hards, but not sure if it'll fit in one of my normal Ultra Pro or Ultimate Guard flip boxes. I was thinking maybe an Ultra Pro Satin Tower?

[GoblinSettler]

So rather than start a new topic, this seems like a good place to ask: for those of you using KMC Perfect Hards, what type of deck box fits your deck? I'm considering resleeving my Vintage deck in Perfect Hards, but not sure if it'll fit in one of my normal Ultra Pro or Ultimate Guard flip boxes. I was thinking maybe an Ultra Pro Satin Tower?

Look for a box shaped like a square prism. 75 and some tokens in Perfect Hards are about as deep as they are wide.

I haven't tried one of the Satin Towers, but they look nice and to be about the right size.

[Stuart]

Cheers Settler - that was my impression, too. If anyone has a deck box they know works with Perfect Hards, let me know!

[CabalTherapy]

Cheers Settler - that was my impression, too. If anyone has a deck box they know works with Perfect Hards, let me know!

Ultimate Guard Flip Box 100+ works well.

[Bryant Cook]

I use the KMC hard perfects and Dragonshield Sky Blue - love them both.

[ramanujan]

Am I weird for not doing the double sleeve thing? It just seems like a bit much to me, right up there with the 2 inch thick screw down baseball card holders from the 1980s. Does anyone here shuffle PSA cases?

For what it is worth.


I have the cards I want.
I am not looking to sell, so condition isn't a great concern of mine.
My cards are not mint, I would rather have a play set of nice-ish cards over 2-3 copies that are 10s on corners, centering, printing, and surface.
No amount of sleeves will allow for long term regular play without wear

[Stuart]

Ultimate Guard Flip Box 100+ works well.

Thanks! I've really enjoyed Ultimate Guard's 80+ deck boxes, so that could be the way to go.


I use the KMC hard perfects and Dragonshield Sky Blue - love them both.

Good to know. I've avoided Dragon Shields in the past, as I've found they're a bit tight on Perfect Fits. However, Hyper Mattes seem to have become much lower quality and prone to exploding mid-shuffle, so maybe it's time to give Dragon Shields another shot.

[Morden]

Another fan of the KMC hard here.

Unfortunately I noticed that they are not good with UltraPro Eclipse (very sad, these are the most beautiful sleeves I've ever tried). Kmc hard fit perfect with kmc hyper matte, but we all know their quality dropped a lot recently.

Is dragonshield the solution? I don't know this brand, I'm seeing that they have a lot of different sleeves. Which one is better combined with kmc hard?

ty a lot

[iostream]

I really like double matte sleeves (both front and back matte), and KMC makes a line of such sleeves called the Premium Mattes (not the same as Hyper Matte). For what it's worth, I haven't personally observed any big quality drop despite what people have been saying about Hyper Mattes turning to crap. Downside is of course, with any double matte sleeve, foils are dulled due to the matte finish on the front.

[augiedoggy18]

I have been using KMC Perfect Fits inside KMC Hyper Matte sleeves for quite some time, but I am looking at changing. No issue with the Perfect Fits, but the last few packs of Hyper Matte sleeves seem to be shorter than before. Short enough, that the cards are nearly sticking out the top of the sleeve. This isn't an issue with Dragonshield Mattes though. Might make the change over as I don't like having to monitor the cards to make sure nothing is sticking out after every game.

[Ephemeron]

Does anyone have any opinion on what the tightest fitting perfect fit sleeves are? My setup used to be KMC Hyper Mattes with KMC Perfect Fits until the hyper mattes went to shit. Now I'm on Dragon Shield mattes (love the Mint color especially). The problem is I've found it extremely difficult to get the perfect fit sleeved cards into the dragon shields. There seems to be a lot of love for perfect hard fits, would they solve this problem?

[H]

Does anyone have any opinion on what the tightest fitting perfect fit sleeves are? My setup used to be KMC Hyper Mattes with KMC Perfect Fits until the hyper mattes went to shit. Now I'm on Dragon Shield mattes (love the Mint color especially). The problem is I've found it extremely difficult to get the perfect fit sleeved cards into the dragon shields. There seems to be a lot of love for perfect hard fits, would they solve this problem?

I have heard that sometimes the Ultra Pro perfect fits are a bit tighter (some even claim they warp the cards), but have never actually seen them be in actual practice.

I don't know if there is some subtle variation in the sizes of the DS colors, but I have never had an issue with KMC perfects fitting into Original DS or DS Mattes.

I had a friend tell me something similar about Dragon Shields, but when I tried his cards and sleeves, I had no issue double sleeving them. I guess there is some sort of technique to it, although I am unsure what it is that I am doing differently. I do know that if you are pushing the perfect fitted card down from the top into the outer sleeve, you are probably going to have a hard time, regardless of what combination of sleeves you are using (in my limited experience).

[Morden]

KMC perfect fits + Ultra Pro eclipse is by far the best package I've ever tried.
Easy to install, durable, good shuffling.

[Sparkii]

KMC Perfect Fit Hards + Dragon Shield Mattes are my go-to.

Eclipse sleeves are good, but get dirty fast and are not good with foils with the matte front.

[Morden]

KMC Perfect Fit Hards + Dragon Shield Mattes are my go-to.

Eclipse sleeves are good, but get dirty fast and are not good with foils with the matte front.

you are right about the matte front.
If Dragon Shield mattes are good, I'll try.
Is any difference between these
http://client-cdn.crystalcommerce.com/photo/madal/file/211053/large/Dragon Shield Matte Blue Standard Size Sleeves 100ct Pack.jpg

these

http://www.arcanetinmen.dk/images/dragon-shield-japanese-sleeves-60-ct-in-box-cf.jpg

and these?

https://teamcovenant.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/dragon-shield-matte-card-sleeves-various-colors.png

they all say "matte", but the different layout makes me think there are some differences (maybe just release time).

[RobNC]

I put all my cards in the same color of Dragonshield Mattes, and even with boxes having different artwork the sleeves have been the same.

[RobNC]

Does anyone have any opinion on what the tightest fitting perfect fit sleeves are? My setup used to be KMC Hyper Mattes with KMC Perfect Fits until the hyper mattes went to shit. Now I'm on Dragon Shield mattes (love the Mint color especially). The problem is I've found it extremely difficult to get the perfect fit sleeved cards into the dragon shields. There seems to be a lot of love for perfect hard fits, would they solve this problem?

I use KMC Perfect Fits with Dragonshield mattes, and for brand new Dragonshield sleeves I find I need to open the sleeve and push the card inside with my finger on the side of the card, rather than pushing at the top of the card which often causes the card to come out of the Perfect Fit. This is less necessary as the sleeves get used and "broken in," so to speak.

[H]

you are right about the matte front.
If Dragon Shield mattes are good, I'll try.


they all say "matte", but the different layout makes me think there are some differences (maybe just release time).

Yeah, they are good.

The different boxes are just a layout change they did earlier this year. But one of those images is for the Japanese size sleeves, which are not what you want. You want the ones that say Standard size.

[Morden]

Yesterday I asked a friend to test one of his dragonshield matte sleeve with my kmc perfect fits hard.
It was IMPOSSIBLE to put the card into the dragonshield (it was a foil one ok......). I hope he was wrong about the brand of his sleeves.......resleeving my deck could be very dangerous in those conditions :frown:

[Ronald Deuce]

Yesterday I asked a friend to test one of his dragonshield matte sleeve with my kmc perfect fits hard.
It was IMPOSSIBLE to put the card into the dragonshield (it was a foil one ok......). I hope he was wrong about the brand of his sleeves.......resleeving my deck could be very dangerous in those conditions :frown:

I put my thumb on the clear outside face of the Dragon Shield and my finger into the sleeve with the card and slide it that way, like rubbing my fingers together with a perfect-fitted card in between.

EDIT: This may be wildly off topic, but what are the absolute ugliest Dragon Shields anyone's seen? I'm trying to sleeve my godawful Commander shitpile deck in the ugliest sleeves I can find, but I like the quality of Dragon Shields.

[Morden]

I felt too much friction with dragon shield inserting the card, I don't like this. I think it can bend or damage the card keeping it in a such tiny space. Or damage the inner sleeve.

[H]

I'm trying to sleeve my godawful Commander shitpile deck in the ugliest sleeves I can find, but I like the quality of Dragon Shields.

Just get white ones, they'll look like crap after a few times, no doubt.

[Ephemeron]

EDIT: This may be wildly off topic, but what are the absolute ugliest Dragon Shields anyone's seen? I'm trying to sleeve my godawful Commander shitpile deck in the ugliest sleeves I can find, but I like the quality of Dragon Shields.

I've found the yellow ones to be particularly hideous. I'm not really a fan of the color yellow in general, and these are very bright - they stick out like a sore thumb from a table.

[Jo4source]

KMC Perfect Fit Hards + Dragon Shield Mattes are my go-to.

Eclipse sleeves are good, but get dirty fast and are not good with foils with the matte front.


what deck box do you use to fit 75 in kmc perfect hard and dragon shields?

also how is the shuffle with both sleeves together it must be like a edh deck.....

[Hook76]

what deck box do you use to fit 75 in kmc perfect hard and dragon shields?

also how is the shuffle with both sleeves together it must be like a edh deck.....

It’s almost exactly like an EDH deck. I’ve been using Ultimate Guard boulder deck boxes 100 size to store because it tends to be too big for the 80 size with that sleeve configuration. There’s usually some room for a few extra cards but some tokens usually fills that up perfectly.

[ronco]

I realize this is a pretty big Necro, but how have the KMC perfect fit HARDS been holding up for everyone? Any issue with bending cards over time? How are they with foils?

[kombatkiwi]

I realize this is a pretty big Necro, but how have the KMC perfect fit HARDS been holding up for everyone? Any issue with bending cards over time? How are they with foils?

My 1 Foil deck is in KMC perfect hards and Dragon Shield matte outers, I think this is a good combo
They keep the cards in a relatively un-bent state (much moreso than normal KMC perfect fits)
Before this the deck was in KMC perfect hard + KMC hyper matte, but I had a problem with the hyper matte sleeves breaking
Either the tolerance between the size of KMC hyper matte and KMC perfect hard is slightly lower than Dragon Shield and KMC perfect hard, or maybe the DS sleeves are just more durable generally.
I know a lot of other people reported problems with KMC hyper matte (especially some batches) but I never had an issue until I started using them with KMC perfect hard

Another tip for keeping your foil decks flat (even sleeved ones) is to store them in a tight-ish box with every 2nd card facing backwards.
It's much more easy for cards to bend over time when they are stacked like this: )))))))) rather than like this: ()()()()()()()

[ronco]

My 1 Foil deck is in KMC perfect hards and Dragon Shield matte outers, I think this is a good combo
They keep the cards in a relatively un-bent state (much moreso than normal KMC perfect fits)
Before this the deck was in KMC perfect hard + KMC hyper matte, but I had a problem with the hyper matte sleeves breaking
Either the tolerance between the size of KMC hyper matte and KMC perfect hard is slightly lower than Dragon Shield and KMC perfect hard, or maybe the DS sleeves are just more durable generally.
I know a lot of other people reported problems with KMC hyper matte (especially some batches) but I never had an issue until I started using them with KMC perfect hard

Another tip for keeping your foil decks flat (even sleeved ones) is to store them in a tight-ish box with every 2nd card facing backwards.
It's much more easy for cards to bend over time when they are stacked like this: )))))))) rather than like this: ()()()()()()()

Thanks for the info. Is dealing with the air pockets that you get from double sleeving pretty much the same with these? Just press it out as best you can then play with them and they eventually flatten out? I keep my deck cards inner sleeved in a binder for easy swap outs on the fly, and the perfect fit hards i am testing out seem to be more "airy" at first.

Basically see the picture. Do they require more work to flatten out to not bend them or did I get a bad batch maybe? Top 3 are side loaders and the rest are in fresh perfect hards. I sat some overnight under books (yellow/blue sleeved pic) but that hasn't been necessary in sleeves past. Outer sleeves are dragon shield matte if it matters. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190912/0cccb68daeb11593cc8b1342b344f440.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190912/95acecc76d5f0c4f3fdd05b15611a0c3.jpg

[compacta_d]

Smokey Perfect Fits and Ultimate Guard Katanas.

[bruizar]

Smokey Perfect Fits and Ultimate Guard Katanas.

THis is my combo too, and I'm pretty sure it's the ultimate setup, especially if you play with foils.