What would you do with Gush in Legacy?

[wcm8]

As a sister thread for the Tinker discussion, how would Gush be integrated into existing decks? Would the card enable new archetypes?

Gush is an incredibly broken, 'free' Draw 2 spell (at instant speed no less!). The drawback of the alternative cost isn't even much of a drawback: it can provide pseudo-ramp on turn 3 and later, and it makes Brainstorm and Jace activations even more powerful since it fills your hand with lands to shuffle away. It would help dig for a counterspell during a critical turn.

It interacts well with Merchant Scroll, and could be easily integrated into any deck archetype that plays Islands. More could be searched out via Intuition, and it's possible that something like Noxious Revival or Regrowth would see play to form a pseudo-engine. It could trigger a Miracle on your opponent's turn even without something like Sensei's Divining Top on the board. Though unlikely, corner-case 'Grow' creatures such as Quirion Dryad, Psychatog, Kiln Fiend, and Lorescale Coatl might see potential play alongside Gush. I'm sure there are plenty of other interactions I haven't considered.

The obvious winners would be RUG and BUG tempo (however, Wasteland is much worse when the effect could be effectively countered by a well-timed Gush), but blue-based Control and Combo archetypes would similarly benefit. Any method of generating 'free' Storm on a combo turn that also draws cards would be a welcome addition to TES and ANT.

The notable omissions from Vintage are the backbones of the 'Gush Engine': Fastbond and Yawgmoth's Will. But even without these two enablers, Gush is still incredible on its own.

The card is not really safe to unban. It provides an unfair method of card advantage that can't really be outdone by non-Blue decks. Games would probably often be decided by who drew more Gushes in the right timeframe. However, I think it's kind of fun to think about. Just how warped would the Format become with Gush available? What would your hypothetical 60 look like?

[DragoFireheart]

As a sister thread for the Tinker discussion, how would Gush be integrated into existing decks?

I would shove it into Tempo Thresh and abuse the format.

[John Cox]

I would play doomsday like a maniac (see what I did there :wink: ).

[nedleeds]

Quit and play Vintage and Modern.

[iamajellydonut]

I would shove it into Tempo Thresh and abuse the format.

Pretty much this. Probably four-color-pile more often than not.

[joemauer]

I would play four copies of said card and win against anyone not playing it.

[nedleeds]

Pretty sure RUG delver just wins everything for the rest of the formats existence (which wouldn't be too long). Even nuttier is that you combine 4 x Gush with 4 x Brainstorm.

So now there's really little drawback in playing out slightly more lands than RUG needs (of course at most SCGs I see idiotic road apple's stumbling into victories with RUG delver despite having 6 lands in play) because now you can Gush them back and use them to make sure Brainstorm acts like Ancestral the way a good ban worthy card should.

The only weakness RUG had ... it's shaky, cheaty manabase is now invulnerable to Wasteland barring Gaddock Teeg. Fun format. The only thing that might be mildly interesting is maybe Quirion Dryad gets another run (or Vinelasher ...).

[Koby]

Quit and play Vintage and Modern.

This. If we're going to get unfettered access to Gush, then why be limited be the constraints of Legacy to begin with?

[Countertoplol]

Enjoy DDFT even more.

[TsumiBand]

Is this just a thing we're doing now?

Which card were you secretly talking about when you said Gush - Brainstorm, Meditate, Ancestral Visions? I give up, which Blue spell is the broken draw spell that you're really pointing the finger at.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRd3ahjZ9kszf4ZFd-0SMQ1HU5rUUtppfaRMy-O3erIFYOqyTb2xA

EDIT - I guess if I had to say what deck I'd build, it'd totally be that Kiln Fiend/Blistercoil Weird Counterburn deck. Imagine the sweet technology of getting your rocks off with free spells like Force/Gush, pseudofree spells like Manamorphose, coupled with Lightning Bolts and maybe a dumbass Fling or something. Every Kiln Fiend will be a 16/2, every Blistercoil Weird will be a 7/7, and every opponent will feel savagely trolled.

[dontbiteitholmes]

This thread sucks, but in a world where Gush is legal, obviously Black Vice would also be unbanned, in which case I'm playing Stasis.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

Quit, sell off what few decks/staples I have left, and go play EDH/Cube exclusively.

[Megadeus]

Play Standard. The best format ever!

[Amon Amarth]

Play some sorta Gro-A-Tog deck. Or combo. I don't know if there is anything better than those two.

[Mr Miagi]

Everybody saying how the would jam them Gushes in RUG decks.. on first sight this might seem logical. But wouldn't returning two lands and usually leaving 0 behind for Daze hurt RUG more than benefit it? Also, there would be some awkward situations where you'll have wasteland in play, either wasting you'r opponent or just sticking it with your lands to play let's say Goyf and leave Spellpierce backup.

.. not saying that Gush should be unbanned, but Jamming it in RUG.. I do not think it's more optimal than the current/standard lists we're currently running...

[thefringthing]

I agree with others that a tempo strategy that never wants to have more than two lands in play anyway would probably be the best thing you can do with Gush in Legacy.

[imnotbrown]

Probably return two islands to my hand so I can draw two at instant speed.

[ahg113]

I'd trade all the Gush's I'm sitting on, for maximum value. Blue is stupid.

[Piceli89]

I would make deep, slow love in the butt with everyone not playing Blue.





Oh, wait.

[nedleeds]

Everybody saying how the would jam them Gushes in RUG decks.. on first sight this might seem logical. But wouldn't returning two lands and usually leaving 0 behind for Daze hurt RUG more than benefit it? Also, there would be some awkward situations where you'll have wasteland in play, either wasting you'r opponent or just sticking it with your lands to play let's say Goyf and leave Spellpierce backup.

.. not saying that Gush should be unbanned, but Jamming it in RUG.. I do not think it's more optimal than the current/standard lists we're currently running...

Well you're wrong.

[Sloshthedark]

enjoy the format

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Patriot Act. With Plated Geopedes maybe.

[emidln]

Kill people for BBB on turn 2 and turn 3. A lot. With a plethora of Force of Wills, Flusterstorms, and Thoughtseizes.

[JACO]

Kill people for BBB on turn 2 and turn 3. A lot. With a plethora of Force of Wills, Flusterstorms, and Thoughtseizes.

I fully support this, and BUG GushSploration.

[RaZe]

For the first time in my 18 yrs of playing magic play with islands.

[HammafistRoob]

For the first time in my 18 yrs of playing magic play with islands.

And maybe win your first tournament?

[RaZe]

And maybe win your first tournament?

Nice try.

Mono-R Goblins x2
Mono-W Stax [Geddon Version]. x1
Mono-G Glimpse Elves x1
Mono-B [for the most part] Manaless Dredge x3

[Quasim0ff]

Run RUG tempo thresh all day, and never look back.

Best daze deck, best brainstorm deck. Gush would completly fuck the other decks out of the format.

[emidln]

Run RUG tempo thresh all day, and never look back.

Best daze deck, best brainstorm deck. Gush would completly fuck the other decks out of the format.

RUG Tempo isn't the best Brainstorm deck (see Tin Fins, TES, ANT, and Doomsday (all decks that brainstorm and then kill you)). I'm on edge if it's a better Daze deck than Reanimator, but it's very close to the best if it isn't actually the best Daze deck. UWR Tempo (Patriot I think it's called) would probably give it a run for its money due to the power of Geist when UWR is slightly heavier on lands (with the extra lands coming from basic islands).

[HammafistRoob]

Nice try.

Mono-R Goblins x2
Mono-W Stax [Geddon Version]. x1
Mono-G Glimpse Elves x1
Mono-B [for the most part] Manaless Dredge x3

It was a joke

/ban island!!!

EDIT- RUG is definitely the best Daze deck thanks to Stifle and Wasteland.

[(nameless one)]

It was a joke

/ban island!!!

EDIT- RUG is definitely the best Daze deck thanks to Stifle and Wasteland.

I have a "learner"/casual UG tempo deck that runs Daze, Gush and Brainstorm. Gush into Brainstorm into Terramorphic Expanse feel so good everytime and Foil is actually improved with Gush.

I can only imagine Gush with big boy cards.

[Quasim0ff]

RUG Tempo isn't the best Brainstorm deck (see Tin Fins, TES, ANT, and Doomsday (all decks that brainstorm and then kill you)). I'm on edge if it's a better Daze deck than Reanimator, but it's very close to the best if it isn't actually the best Daze deck. UWR Tempo (Patriot I think it's called) would probably give it a run for its money due to the power of Geist when UWR is slightly heavier on lands (with the extra lands coming from basic islands).

That's simply not true, I am afraid.

The reason RUG is the best brainstorm deck is because it's meanwhile the best daze deck.
You can ship your dead cards (lands) for business. That seems better than the rest decks, as you can basicly ancestral recall.

[emidln]

That's simply not true, I am afraid.

The reason RUG is the best brainstorm deck is because it's meanwhile the best daze deck.
You can ship your dead cards (lands) for business. That seems better than the rest decks, as you can basicly ancestral recall.

Maybe you've never actually resolved Brainstorm in a combo deck. Let me frame it for you. You pay U and put Brainstorm on the stack. When it resolves, you put back two bad cards and then your opponent loses the game. In every deck with fetchlands, Brainstorm can be a pseudo-ancestral. Only in combo decks does a pseudo-ancestral just KO your opponent time and time again.

There is no difference in the Stifle/Wasteland capabilities of RUG vs any other Stifle/Waste tempo deck. You might say Burn is necessary for aggressiveness, but that still doesn't even give you a reasonable argument over the UWR Delver deck that has been seeing play lately. Further, Daze as a combo piece is particularly devstating. Reanimator is already one of the better Brainstorm decks (remember when combo decks "just win"? Reanimator doesn't kill you dead, it just drops Griselbrand onto the table). Reanimator aggressively punishes opponents for not having as much cheap interaction. It completley forsakes a long game and attempts to push Daze as hard as possible. Whle Delver + Daze is a very strong play, Reanimate or Exhume Dead + Daze means your opponent just lost the game.

[TsumiBand]

Patriot Act. With Plated Geopedes maybe.

Actually yeah, random Landfall combo technology with Gush sounds pretty neat.

My little kid is showing, but like... Derp. Gush with Exploration and Landfall effects is a little Voltronic I guess, but how rad would that be to control like a Steppe Lynx and a Geopede and like, play 3 lands b/c you Gushed and 2 of them ended up being fetchlands. Stupid 4 color combo aggro deck, I can't afford your manabase :(

[HammafistRoob]

Reanimator aggressively punishes opponents for not having as much cheap interaction. It compleey forsakes a long game and attempts to push Daze as hard as possible. Whle Delver + Daze is a very strong play, Reanimate or Exhume Dead + Daze means your opponent just lost the game.

Sure if Reanimator has turn one or two combo hand Daze is obviously very potent. But once you enter the midgame Daze becomes quite bad when your opponent has three or four lands in play. Stifle/Waste Tempo decks are far superior at keeping Dazes power level quite high even in the mid-late game. Obviously both decks have a chance to Brainstorm/Ponder away bad Dazes.

[Deviruchi]

I would put Gush into DDFT. Later I would probably hate the format because of the ocean of RUG/BUG/UWR.

[Rood]

Exploration, Summer Bloom come to mind with Gush.

[LOurs]

I would probably give it a try into Hightide.dec

then obviously militate to get fastbond unbanned (with gush unbanned, nothing'd be impossible).

[apple713]

id start playing with notion thief!

[lordofthepit]

I'd probably just jam RUG Delver some more until someone makes an optimized broken combo deck with Gush.

Being able to make your 3rd and 4th land drops and then turn that into a 5 new cards off Gush + Brainstorm feels so much better than holding back your land drops.