[Deck] Swan Song/ Chain of plasma combo

[technogeek5000]

The shadowmoor previews thread is getting clogged with talk of this card and the combo suggested realy seems to have alot of potential. It does not rely on artifact acceleration or the graveyard which makes it one of the most resilient combos in magic. Anyways here is what i have been toying around with after i saw the combo.

4 Polluted delta
3 Flooded strand
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Volcanic island
4 island
2 mountain

4 Chrome mox
3 SSG

4 Swan Song
4 Chain of plasma
4 Force of will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lightning bolt
2 Lighting storm
2 Counterspell
1 Chain Lightning
1 Portent

4 Pyroclasm
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Shattering spree
3 REB
2 BEB

First off, is the combo:

Swans' Song 2{wu}{wu}
Creature - Bird Spirit Rare
Flying
If damage would be dealt to Swans' Song, prevent that damage. The controller of the damage's source then draws cards equal to the damage prevented in this way.

4/3

Obviously, this with chain of plasma draws ytour deck, where you can therefore kill the opponent. This kill doesnt rely on the grave and artifact acceleration, it runs 8 counterspells, and has answers to almost anything that can be thrown at it. This deck does not need a aggro route like decks like Cephalid breakfast because its kill is infinitely harder to disrupt. With SSG and Chrome mox the kill can be accelerated extremely fast. Lightning bolts and the singleton chain lightnings are red ancestral recalls with the swan out, so if you dont have the chain of plasma it will be easy to find it. Also the lightnings can be used to kill of pesky creatures like magus, hippie, meddling mage, etc... The sideboard has answers to all the decks that would seem to hurt it the most. You side in pyroclasms against goblins, BEB's and shattering sprees for Dragon stompy, REB's for landstill and thresh, and pyrokinesis for... im not sure... whatever you need it for. Pyrokinesis could be sided in to more consistently, as it draws you 4 cards for free.

[PhanTom_lt]

Lightning Storm is better than Firestorm. Firestorm doesn't even work, as far I can see. Also, Conflagrate could be used for an alterantive kill.
How fast can you combo out? What disrupts you? How do you defend from the whatever hate thrown at you? Why only 3 SSG? What do you do if you don't find the combo fast enough?

[Cavius The Great]

@Technogeek - Have you considered Seismic Assault as a win condition? With SSG and Chrome Mox it shouldn't be difficult to cast. Especially when you've drawn your entire deck.

[Elficidium]

Firestorm indeed doesn't work as a kill.

Oracle:
10/4/2004 can't be played for a value of X more than the number of legal (different) targets. You can't target the same thing more than once.

[technogeek5000]

I just changed it, lightning storm is a better option then conflagarate because it doesnt rely on the grave, although it could be useful as a 1-of to protect against extirpate. Seismic assault seems vastly inferior to lighting storm, as you need 3 red and it does 2 damage per mana. The only case where it could be better is if you are low enough on life to be killed by the opponent burning you out from there lands, but even then, if you are smart enough with the stack you can avoid this.

[FoolofaTook]

Unless I'm misreading Chain of Plasma, why do you need anything else?

Cast Chain of Plasma, dealing 3 to Swan. Draw 3. Copy Chain, dealing 3. Repeat 7-10 times. Copy Chain, targetting opponent. Repeat 7 times.

Am I missing something?

The opponent can circumvent the chain by just choosing not to extend it.

Just what the format needed: another creature that makes Swords to Plowshares indispensable.

[Clark Kant]

The opponent can circumvent the chain by just choosing not to extend it.

How? I don't follow.

"Chain of Plasma deals 3 damage to target creature or player. Then that player or that creature's controller may discard a card. If the player does, he or she may copy this spell and may choose a new target for that copy."

Also since the deck is so reliant on finding and resolving a Swan's Song to be able to do enough damage to win, I am wondering if the deck should squeeze in additional ways to find it.

[Clark Kant]

I'm just wondering if this combo is indeed unquestionably superior to the Dreadnought/Trinket Mage + Stifle/Trickbind combo, as that combo uses less mana and has a lot more ways to get each combo piece. Yes, I know it's not instant speed, but the cards in that combo fit into blue's strategy better.

It's an interesting and powerful combo no doubt. I'm just wondering if it is indeed going to be much better than the option already available in the format.

[rufus]

The opponent can circumvent the chain by just choosing not to extend it.

If Chain of Plasma targets a creature, then that creature's controller gets to choose to discard a card since the critter is your own.

I look at this combo, and I wonder about something along the lines of:

Swan of Bryn Argoll
Stuffy Doll

Fire Covenant
Chain of Plasma
Chain Lightning

[technogeek5000]

I'm just wondering if this combo is indeed unquestionably superior to the Dreadnought/Trinket Mage + Stifle/Trickbind combo, as that combo uses less mana and has a lot more ways to get each combo piece. Yes, I know it's not instant speed, but the cards in that combo fit into blue's strategy better.

I am also wondering if the combo is even much better than the Curiosity + Niv Mizzet combo.

It's an interesting and powerful combo no doubt. I'm just wondering if it is indeed going to be much better than the options already available in the format.

basically what seperates the two is the fact that this kills two turns earlier and that the creature part of the combo can be used without the other part and the enabler (burn) can be more widely and effectively used then the dreadnoughts enabler.

Also 4+ 1 mana ancestral recalls seem pretty good.

[Pulp_Fiction]

This is cool as hell, but how does it kill the opponent the turn you can draw your deck out? Chain of Plasma targets Swan, draw three, now choose to target opponent with 3 damage from chain copy and opponent decides not to continue the chain.... how does it keep going? Is Lightning Storm your kill mechanism? It seems like it is which brings up another point, can Pithing Needle stop Lightning Storm's gaining counters? Is that an activated or triggered ability? Wouldn't something like Grapeshot be just as effective combined with all of the burn that is in the deck already?

[Pinder]

It seems like it is which brings up another point, can Pithing Needle stop Lightning Storm's gaining counters? Is that an activated or triggered ability?

It's activated, and it can be Needled. Maybe a 1-of (or more) Shattering Spree to deal with pesky artifacts like needle prior to going off? I mean, you draw your whole deck, and you have red via Moxen and SSG, so it wouldn't be hard to cast it (and even replicate it a couple of times if you have to get around Chalice @ 1 or something). Off the top of my head the things it would most likely deal with are Needle and a Chalice @ 0 to stop your Moxen.

While I'm at it, I'll go ahead and repeat what I said in the Shadowmoor info thread: I think 1 MD Overmaster is also some secret tech that could be put to use. If you bump SSG to 4, you can use 1 for Overmaster, and the other 3 for Lightning Storm. Even if they counter the Overmaster, that's still one less counterspell you have to worry about.

Also, it might be worth it to stick in a 1-of way to deal with Counterbalance, too, but nothing comes to mind ATM.

[georgjorge]

How 'bout some way to deal damage that can be played BEFORE swan comes down (so you don't need six mana in one turn...) ? With a different manabase, Seismic Assault might be good after all - it's worse post-combo, but can help to combo off faster (though you might not have lands left in hand when you need four to play Swans...).

Aren't there any cards that damage your own creatures as a "penalty" ?

[Maagler]

I was thinking would anyone else think this could work in a W/R/g(oyf) aggro shell? You could make it so that the combo is a secondary focus.

something like this

Creatures
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Swans of Bryn Argoll
4 Tarmogoyf
3 kird ape
4 SSG

Spells
1 seismic assault
4 Lightning Bolt
4 orims chant
4 Chain Lightning
4 chrome mox
4 chain of plasma
2 Incinerate

Lands
4 Taiga
4 Plateau
4 Wooded Foothill
2 windswept heath
1 Forest
1 plains
2 Mountain

Idk this is really rough and off the top of my head, but maybe by not solely focusing on the combo we might have better success.

[Pinder]

Aren't there any cards that damage your own creatures as a "penalty"?

Not that are as easily repeatable as Chain. I also can't think of any offhand that stick to the table. As for Seismic Assault, what happens when you discard a land targeting the Swan, and then you draw two nonland cards (and don't have any more lands in hand)? This might not come up that often, but there's always the possibility, which makes the combo not as solid.

Is there any sort of red (or, less likely, blue) enchantment that lets you discard a card for free to deal more than 1 damage to a creature?

[Sanguine Voyeur]

It's activated, and it can be Needled. Maybe a 1-of (or more) Shattering Spree to deal with pesky artifacts like needle prior to going off?

Also, it might be worth it to stick in a 1-of way to deal with Counterbalance, too, but nothing comes to mind ATM.

Conflagrate. No activated abilities and Counterbalance will have a hard time reaching 21.

[Nihil Credo]

You gain Needle immunity, but you are now vulnerable to graveyard hate. Counterbalance immunity is pointless since they can just Balance the Chain of Plasma.

[Pinder]

Conflagrate. No activated abilities and Counterbalance will have a hard time reaching 21.

Ooh. I like it. Also worth noting is that Counterbalance doesn't trigger off of replicate copies, so Shattering Spree also walks right through Counterbalance. 1 MD Conflagrate to Dodge all the Lightning Storm hate, and 1 MD Lightning Storm to dodge all the Conflagrate hate. Sounds pretty solid.

Heaven help you if they have Needle, CB, and Leyline, though.

edit -

Counterbalance immunity is pointless since they can just Balance the Chain of Plasma.

Oh sure, ruin all our fun . He's right, though. This deck really needs a way to deal with Counterbalance prior to going off (although, it does have Force and Daze, so it's not entirely helpless).

[Hightower]

If you have to add other direct dmg then Chain of Plasma, then why not run Lightning Axe? 5 cards seems better then 3.. and the drawback is nothing really

Can't wait to see what happens when Shadowmoor is released =P

[Shtriga]

This is cool as hell, but how does it kill the opponent the turn you can draw your deck out? Chain of Plasma targets Swan, draw three, now choose to target opponent with 3 damage from chain copy and opponent decides not to continue the chain.... how does it keep going? Is Lightning Storm your kill mechanism?

I was wondering the same ever since I first saw people talking about the combo

even if you target your swan 300 times, and buy 300 cards, as soon as you target your opponent and he decides not to continue the chain, it stops copying itself - since only the last target can choose to replicate it- dealing a miserable 3 damage and decking yourself next turn.

reminds me of someone somewhere a while ago posting a blue deck thread and listing fact or fiction as it's win condition

or not? I've never played with chain of anything