[CaNG - Finalist] Gargangel Stompy (W Chalice Aggro)

[Phantom]

Cujrrent List:

// Lands
2 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
4 [EX] City of Traitors
9 [10E] Plains (4)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor
4 [10E] Windborn Muse
4 [LE] Glowrider
4 [ON] Exalted Angel

// Spells
4 [SC] Decree of Justice
2 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [LG] Moat
4 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [10E] Mobilization
SB: 4 [CHK] Ghostly Prison
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [RAV] Pithing Needle

Gargangel Stompy (W Chalice Aggro)
CaNGD Submission by The Phantom (aka Billy Zane)

Table of Contents

• 1.0 Introduction and Backround
• 2.0 The List
  
  • 2.1 The Cards
  • 2.2 The Sideboard
  • 2.3 Cards Previously Tested
  • 2.4 Other Cards Considered
• 3.0 Playing the Deck
• 4.0 Strengths and Weaknesses
• 5.0 The Matchups
• 6.0 Conclusion, Thanks and Lingering Questions

1.0 Intro

So over my Legacy career I've taken a shot at Chalice aggro in every color imaginable. I helped Eldariel (the Godfather) with the original blue Faerie Stompy, helped Taco create and develop the red spinoff Dragon Stompy, and have tooled around with both black and green on the side (which have both received some solid upgrades lately). For some reason, I never really took a shot at white. Why? I'm not really sure except to say that maybe I thought Angel Stompy (and D+T maybe) was the best there was.

Anyway, one day at work it hit me that:

A) Moat is an incredible card. It hits every archetype. Every damn one. And with a certain creature popping up everywhere, it may have never been stronger.

B) White may not have the fatties that other colors do (although Angel is all she ever was in a Tomb/City/Mox shell) but it does have some solid creatures that double as disruption such as Glowrider and Aven Mindcensor.

C) White has gotten some solid additions lately to the casting cost club in the form of Mirror Entity, Stonecloaker, and the oh so sexy Oblivion Ring.

With all that in mind I threw together a list and got to testing.

2.0 The List

Here she is:


// Lands
4 [EX] City of Traitors
8 [10E] Plains (4)
2 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb

// Creatures
4 [PLC] Stonecloaker
4 [ON] Exalted Angel
4 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor
4 [LRW] Mirror Entity
4 [LE] Glowrider

// Spells
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
4 [LG] Moat
3 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [MR] Chrome Mox

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [P2] Armageddon
SB: 3 [NE] Parallax Wave
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [DS] Trinisphere
SB: 0 [RAV] Suppression Field
SB: 0 [UD] Powder Keg

(This is the list I tested for the results below. I'm going to test -1 Mirror, -2 Stonecloaker, +3 Decree of Justice)

2.1 The Cards

1) Moat - MVP. House. Fantastic. Wrecks Thresh. Wrecks Goblins. Can wreck Storm Combo (and I'm assuming it's very good vs. Ichy and Breakfast). Hurts Dragon Stompy. Annoys Landstill. It limits our options a bit as far a creatures go, but I don't think we should over think that process and talk ourselves out of running powerful cards simply because they are synergistic (I'm running 12 flyers and 8 non right now and that has been ok). Also, it's a nice middle finger to Tarmogoyf.

2) Oblivion Ring - Man. I wish I could run this in other Stompy variants now. Gets rid of HUGE problems for us like Deed, Tombstalker, Enforcer, Needle and BELCHER.

3) Creatures -

- Exalted Angel -> The only auto include here really. He's just nuts and laughs at a single Goyf (for only 4-5 mana more!). I wish i could run 12.
- Aven Mindcensor -> Surprisingly Solid. Can win you random matches by shutting off fetches/tutors but has mostly just been a Flash flyer which is usually enough.
- Glowrider -> Better than expected. Smacks Storm Combo and is more effective in other matchups than I would have thought.
- Stonecloaker -> A tad disappointing, but fits pretty well here. I'd like to cut down to two or three since they suck without other creatures alive. I like the random yard hate though.
- Mirror Entity -> Bad synergy with Moat, but just too nuts to not run. Makes all those disruptive beaters BEAT.

(Note: Sadly white suffers from a lack of fatties in the - range. The deck will have to rely on disruption, equipment, and Moat rather than the speed of other Stompy shells)

4) Flagstones of Trokair - Blood Moon and B2B can't outweigh the synergy these have with Armageddon out of the board.?

5) Equipment - Some of the creatures are smallish, so I play a 3/3 SoFI/Jitte split.

6) Chalice and Trinisphere - I run Chalice main and Trini sided as Moat is eating Trini's spot and Glowrider gives us some storm combo hate maindeck already.


2.2 Sideboard Choices

4 Armageddon - The deck does struggle against control. Hopefully this helps.
3 Parallax Wave - Helps against agrro and can save your guys from removal for a few turns. Also, if I remember correctly now it acts as a one sided Wrath with Oblivion Ring.
4 Tormod's Crypt - Better than Morningtide, which I think is our only other option.
4 Trinisphere - Further Storm Combo hate, which should seal the match.
0 Suppression Field - I was considering this, but I don't know where it really is amazing.
0 Powder Keg- Multipurpose, but does it deserve a spot?

- The board is still shaky and untested at this point.

2.3 Cards Previously Tested

- Hokori, Dust Drinker -> Tried him for a bit, but it seemed that the decks I wanted him to hurt had plenty of cheap answers.

2.4 Other Cards Considered

- Windborn Muse -> Could be useful against Aggro or EtW. Nice synergy with Hokori. Too small for the CC is what I'm thinking though.
- Karmic Guide -> Briefly considered him for the card advantage, but I doubt it.
- Gathan Raiders -> Bad synergy with Moat and this deck doesn't get Hellbent as quickly as DS.
- Decree of Justice -> I want to test this next. Not sure in what spot though.
- Voidstone Gargoyle -> Disruptive Flyer, but a tad weak.

3.0 Playing the Deck

Chalice, Glowrider, and Mindcensor are always solid early game plays. The midgame usually involves Moats, Angels, and or equipment. If you play Moat keep laying out ground creatures (if you don't have flyers) as some decks play answers, and Oblivion Ring on your own Moat can allow for a nice alpha strike.

4.0 Strengths and Weaknesses


Clearly I believe the deck to be very strong or I would not have posted it. I'm not sure it's 100% there yet, but here are some of the strengths and weaknesses I've encountered:

Strengths

- Disruptive beaters. Creatures that both disrupt and carry equipment are always great in these decks (see: Magus of the Moon).

- Solid disruption. Moat and Chalice main. Good options for the side.

- Versatile control. Oblivion Ring hits so many of our problems.

- Angel. Still one of the best beaters in the game.

Weaknesses

- Sweepers. We drop down a lot of permanents at once, so if someone sweeps the board through O Ring, the card advantage can be difficult to recover from.

- Artifact and Enchantment hate. We run the usual Mox/Jitte/Sword/Chalice suite that Chalice Aggro is known for, but we also run Moat and Ring which can be hit by the same hate often.

- Not as lightning fast as other Stompy decks. We trade in some speed for some more disruption. This is a mixed blessing as we lose some games where we once had the advantage. We also have 12 creatures that come into play with 1 toughness and the other 8 come into play with 2.

5.0 The Matchups


(A quick word about testing. I never claim my testing is 100%, simply that it happened and that my partner and I attempted to be as fair as I could. Feel free to question the numbers or perform your own.)

1) Threshold
How it goes: Played a ton of games in this matchup against several varieties (both CounterTop and not) so I'm sure that this matchup is very favorable. They can't let Chalice hit. The can't let a creature get equipment on it. Glowrider hurts them. Angel is a huge problem as it completely negates a Goyf. Moat is all but game over if it lands preboard.

Tips: Don't sweat Daze. Save Moat for after they've burnt all their counters. I tend to play in roughly this hierarchy: Chalice, Glowrider, Mindcensor, Angel, Mirror Entity, Moat, with equipment, Ring, and Stonecloaker in reserve if needed.

Board: I'm actually not sure yet. Trini and Wave in for equipment maybe?

vs W thresh w/ top
on the draw
1-0 Moat + Chalice
2-0 Angel > 2 Goyfs. Ring > Enforcer
3-0 Moat + Chalice + Angel
4-0 Moat + Chalice + Angel
5-0 Chalice + Mindcensor + Jitte

on the play
6-0 Moat > Goose x 3
7-0 Chalice @1 and 2 + Stonecloaker w/ Jitte
7-1 StP + Daze + Force + Goyf
8-1 Chalice + Miror Entity w/ Sword (bringing down Enforcers)
9-1 Chalice @1 + Mirror Entity + Angel + Sword

2) Combo
How it goes: Surprisingly well, against Belcher at least, considering Trini is in the board. Chalice is fantastic as always. Glowrider can come down quick and stall. Ring hits Belcher. Moat stops Warrens. Mindcensor stops tutors.

Tips: Disrupt as much as possible, then win as soon as possible.

Board: Trini (or Crypt) in for Jitte and a Sword.

vs Belcher
on the draw
0-1 Belched turn 3
1-1 Oblivion Ring > Slow Belch (thanks to Glow)
2-1 Moat > Warrens
2-2 Belched > Moat
3-2 Belch hits a land. Ring hits belcher.

on the play
4-2 Chalice @ 1 and 2
5-2 Chalice @ 1 and 2
6-2 Ring x 2 on Mox and Belch + Chalice and Glowrider
7-2 Chalice + Glow + Jitte
7-3 EtW > No Moat

3) Landstill
How it goes: Bleh. The usual Stompy bad matchup, only we don't have a lucky Blood Moon to bail us out.

Tips: Land Moat and protect it with your mind. Be careful of Deed if possible, Ring it if not. Flash creatures are a great response to Standstill. Hopefully Geddon and Decree will help here.

Board: Geddon for Equipment.

vs 4c Landstill
on the draw
0-1
0-2
0-3
0-4
0-5

on the play
1-5 Flash > Still
1-6
1-7
2-7
3-7

4) Dragon Stompy
How it goes: Yowza. 50/50 right down the middle. This is the only place where Plains are better than Flagstaffs.

Tips: Win the die roll. Win the Jitte battle. Play a Moat.

Board: Chalice out for Wave. Not sure if Geddon should come in or not.

vs DS
on the draw
0-1 Too fast
1-1 Quick Moat
1-2 Quick Dragon + equip
1-3 One Plains + Moon = no moat
1-4 Slog > Moat

on the play
2-4 Moat + Angel + Sword
3-4 Ring + Angel
3-5 Sulfur x 3
4-5 Glow w/ 2x Sword
5-5 Ring on the Slog. Glow w/ Jitte

5) Goblins
How it goes: 50/50 pre against Rg. Not too bad as that is the worst build for us.

Tips: Moat, Moat, Moat. The Jitte and Angel. Save Ring for Vial or SCG usually.

Board: Wave in for Chalice on the draw, Glowrider on the play?

vs RG Gobs
on the draw
0-1 Lackey > Slow hand
1-1 Moat
2-1 Moat + SoFI
2-2 Vial > no Moat
3-2 Angel w/ Jitte > Vial x 2

on the play
3-3 SGC > Moat + no flyers
4-3 Angel + Moat
4-4 No Moat, Angel, Jitte = bad
4-5 Mull into Oblivion (not Ring)
5-5 Moat + Ring on both SGCs

6) Black Aggro
How it goes: Poorly if they are splashing green. Discard + LD + mainboard Seals are bad news.

Tips: Consider Sacred ground if Eva runs rampant in your meta. Moat the ground creatures and Ring Tombstalker.

Board: Wave should be a pretty big help here. In for equipment.

vs. Eva Green
on the draw
0-1 TS
0-2 Sinkhole x 3
0-3 Snuff Out
0-4 Hymn x2 + Sink
0-5

on the play
0-6
1-6 Manascrew
2-6 Moat + Angel
2-7
2-8

Thanks for reading and hopefully helping out!

[Tacosnape]

I like. Quad maindeck Moat is hot stuff. How strong is Armageddon?

Also, can I rename your deck to Gargamel Stompy? Because that's what I read it as the first time.

[Maveric78f]

That's fun because I tested today an homebrew White Stompy deck. However my goal was to go nuts against threshold (which you seem to do too) by preventing any kind of cantriping with glowrider/thorn/chalice.

I'm not that sure that moat is so great in this deck, when you could run a lot of very strong tool creatures. My testings are poor up to now, since I spent only 2 hours on it, but when you say that W creatures were not stompy fit, I really do not agree.

// Lands
11 [A] Plains (2)
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb

// Creatures
4 [LOR] Mirror Entity
3 [PLC] Stonecloaker
3 [TSP] Serra Avenger
4 [ON] Exalted Angel
4 [LE] Glowrider
4 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor
4 [FUT] Gathan Raiders
3 [PLC] Voidstone Gargoyle

// Spells
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [LOR] Thorn of Amethyst

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [CHK] Ghostly Prison
SB: 3 [A] Armageddon
SB: 2 [TSP] Tivadar of Thorn = maybe moats
SB: 2 [DK] Tivadar's Crusade = maybe moats
SB: 4 [4E] Disenchant

[etrigan]

Did you test against UGr Thresh? Particularly against lists with Lightning Bolt and Fire/Ice? Seems like bad news, as all your guys with the exception of unmorphed Angel can be easily burnt out.

[Tacosnape]

Chalice for 1 >> Lightning Bolt.
Chalice for 2 >> Fire // Ice.
Stonecloaker >> Removal.

...and if all that fails, game 1, Moat >> UGR Threshold. This is a large part of why I think Sea Drake's a better third creature in Threshold than Werebear, in addition to being Blue to pitch to Force and working well with Counterbalance.

That said, this deck does have some low toughness problems, it seems like. Fortunately its high evasion helps to compensate.

[Eldariel]

I think the manabase is risky. You run two very important spells with WW costs and only 14 white sources. I'd personally go with at least 18, and even Angel Stompy, known to bend those rules, includes at the very least 16 white sources. Dragon Stompy gets away with 14 thanks to Seething Song AND SSG fixing the manabase further. Outside that, I like the idea - to be frank, the one white card I've so often wanted in Faerie Stompy is Moat. That's truly where the gold lies for a Stompy-deck - one card that nullifies opposing strategies while not as much as touching yours.

I also dislike Stonecloakers for the outlined reasons; they can't be played alone, which seems to be a huge hurdle. Too bad Skirmisher is uncastable here - it'd be a perfect creature for the deck. Soltari Champion is a decent option, but seeing that you don't usually have too many creatures to pump and accounting for the fact that Shadow doesn't work with Moat, it's probably less-than-optimal.

Good job - I don't have much to add at the moment, the card choices seem pretty solid and I really have no idea how to make the manabase more consistent outside the obvious '-4 City, +4 Plains'.

[Phantom]

All good stuff so far and thanks for the input. Some quick answers:

I like. Quad maindeck Moat is hot stuff. How strong is Armageddon?

Also, can I rename your deck to Gargamel Stompy? Because that's what I read it as the first time.

Quad Moat is nuts. Haven't tested geddon yet but postboard testing starts tonight (as does Decree testing). I'll let you know. Can you think of something better in white to fight Landstill? Suppression Field maybe?

Ummm, I'm not attached to the name, but Gargamel? Fuck that bitch. He wasn't even a wizard. I think he just liked mixing things.

@Mav: Nice list. I'm not clear on how you run so much though. I'm only running 1 card that requires double white to be played because I often don't hit that till midgame. Thorn also seems to hit many less decks than Moat. I would suggest Hokori, Dust Drinker and Windborn Muse for you as you seem to have a mana tie up thing going.

Did you test against UGr Thresh? Particularly against lists with Lightning Bolt and Fire/Ice? Seems like bad news, as all your guys with the exception of unmorphed Angel can be easily burnt out.

I always try to test against the toughest build of a deck and I figured White would be more difficult. Your points are valid, but as Taco said, Moat > no flyers not to mention SoFI attached to anything is trouble for them.

I did already address the toughness problem and am hoping Decree will help that (although it leaves us still venerable to Clasm I guess).

I think the manabase is risky. You run two very important spells with WW costs and only 14 white sources. I'd personally go with at least 18, and even Angel Stompy, known to bend those rules, includes at the very least 16 white sources. Dragon Stompy gets away with 14 thanks to Seething Song AND SSG fixing the manabase further. Outside that, I like the idea - to be frank, the one white card I've so often wanted in Faerie Stompy is Moat. That's truly where the gold lies for a Stompy-deck - one card that nullifies opposing strategies while not as much as touching yours.

Make no mistake, the manabase IS risky (see Eva Green raping me), but the deck can win on only (Angels are Gray ogres and Moats go to Moxen). Usually comes online early or midgame, and we usually aren't in a desperate hurry to drop Moat or flip Angel. I'd love to be able to guarantee WW, but I think cutting 2 mana lands is out of the question. The slower Glowrider, Mindcensor, and Chalice hit the board the less teeth they have.

I also dislike Stonecloakers for the outlined reasons; they can't be played alone, which seems to be a huge hurdle. Too bad Skirmisher is uncastable here - it'd be a perfect creature for the deck. Soltari Champion is a decent option, but seeing that you don't usually have too many creatures to pump and accounting for the fact that Shadow doesn't work with Moat, it's probably less-than-optimal.

Stonecloakers have been a mixed blessing. If i can untap with a creature in play, they give us removal hate which is pretty amazing. Also, the yard hate is unexpected and useful. I think they belong here, but not as a 4-of. That's why I'm cutting 2 for Decrees. I like the fact that Decrees have psuedo Flash and Split Second, while still being able to function under moat if it is down (albeit for 4 ).

[Hightower]

Really cool deck =)

I was thinking if Morningtide added anything to your version, and maybe you could consider that new Giant-guy:

Stonehwer Giant - WW3

Creature - Giant Warrior

Rare

Vigilance

1{W}, {T}: Search your library for an Equipment card and put it into play. Attach it to a creature you control. Then shuffle your library.

4/4

He could be the Arc-Slogger of the deck, a really strong mid-game drop. I'm aware that he can't fly and white doesn't pack Seething Songs to play him turn1, but he's still decent imo.

Regards

[Phantom]

I considered that guy, and while he has a crazy high ceiling, his basement is just too low. In other words, he is dead too often. He is dead with Moat down. He is dead if we don't have . He is dead if we only have . He costs five and doesn't immediatly outclass Goyf. He won't be attacking with a piece of hardware until two full turns after I drop him, which already won't be early thanks to his cost.

Basically, the rule for Tomb/City/Mox decks used to be no double mana casting costs. it has become no double mana cost cards unless they are just too good not to run. I don't think the Giant falls into that category.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I believe the intent is to attack and activate it on the same turn, making it effectively a 8/6 Pro-blue/red Ophidian.

That may not outweigh the benefits though. This deck is different from Dragon Stompy, including how it handles its mana.

[f|i[p]]

Interesting deck, I have been longing to see a white variant of chalice aggro but never really had the time to work on it.

It seems that you don't have a real threat aside from angel. In order for them to be a threat, you'd have to rely on equipment or pumping them via mirror entity.

If ever you don't get a moat in play, does thresh or goblins even bother to block your creatures?

Just a thought...
Although it doesnt work with moat around and it seems that moat is your MVP,I'll just ask anyway.

I was wondering if you have ever tried this type of deck with soldiers, Preeminent Captain along with other soldiers? It allows you to cheat the mana of other soldiers just like lackey. Also championing a creature might even help you with regards to mass removal, Just like stonecloakers do, although they go back straight to play which could be better. Removing a creature in response to your casting it wont usually happen as, you may have chalices,glowriders, trinispheres or such.

Just throwing out ideas out there.

[Kronicler]

Nice deck, Phantom. My only suggestion is to test against UGR Tempo Thresh, a build that a lot of people write off. It seems like wastelanding your 2 mana lands and F/Iing your creatures could be incredible strong against you. I know that Chalice > Thresh and Moat > Thresh, but you only have 4 chalice which can often be taken care of with force and daze, and wasteland on your 2 mana lands could prevent you from getting moat into play before you are dead / at low enough life to be burnt out. And then of course they bringin 4 Grip in place of their Stifles and maybe pyrcoclasm for all your small-assed creatures and it turns into a whole new ball game.

Kronicler

[Pinder]

Ummm, I'm not attached to the name, but Gargamel? Fuck that bitch. He wasn't even a wizard. I think he just liked mixing things.

Because of the Moats and the emphasis placed on your own flying creatures, I suggest Monty Python's Flying Circus, or just 'Flying Circus' for short.

That is all.

p.s. Nice deck

[strom]

Have you tried Skyhunter Skirmisher? I know that it is a bit hard to cast, but it is pretty nuts combined with your equipment and especially with Miror Entity.

Moat is indeed a very strong card. But you dont want to see more than one of them. I suggest playing a 2/2 split between Moat and Wave. Wave gets rid of alle the pesky things Moat cant handle, especially opposing flyers and utility creatures like Confidant.

[gosumog]

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=8480

didnt i just make this deck -_-

i tested wave and moat, its good with mangara =)

[Mooglar]

A couple of questions, why use armageddon if you dont have crucibles aside from having moxes. Wouldnt catacalysm be better leaving you with a flyer, a chalice and a moat with 2 lands from flagstones.

Catacalysm also rapes thresh and goblins since goblins get to sit there with 1 warchief after and thresh gets 1 goyf >_>, aside that if u leave trini after cata its pretty devastating.

Also have you considered loxodon gatekeeper hes pretty good =)

my friend just made this deck like 2 days ago and he is gosumog >_> above but you seem to have all the matchups ^^

i rly dont like mirror entity here he seems really bad

Try Hokori, Gatekeeper or something like jotun grunt or another flyer

[Maveric78f]

Once more, I'm not sure Moat is the card you want in monoW stompy. The flying creatures are too rare and too fragile (except for angel).

For the double strike issue, I prefer from far Kinsbaile Cavalier which is high-level combo with Mirror Entity and equipements. They are not flying I know, but with a no-moat list it would be awesome.

For information, the nice white knights suitable for a stompy deck are:
- Mirror Entity
- Kinsbaile Cavalier
- Defender of Law
- Skyhunter Cub
- Springjack Knight
- Knight of Sursi
- Avian Changeling

They are pretty bad all of them (except for the 2 first). If we could afford WW cost more consistently, there would be nice additions though:
- Knight of Meadowgrain
- Knight of the Holy Nimbus
- Leonin Skyhunter
- Silver Knight
- White Knight

That's really a pity.

[Mooglar]

i looked up some flyers

hunted lamasu looks good with moat on the board

Serra avenger looks yummy

serra angel is meh

galepowder mage looks ok too >_>

[Maveric78f]

@Mav: Nice list. I'm not clear on how you run so much though. I'm only running 1 card that requires double white to be played because I often don't hit that till midgame.

I play only 7 spells taht require absolutely WW. The avenger is quite bad since I've removed the equipments and I'm thinking about replaciing it. However the Voidstone Gargoyle is really strong though and the doubleW is not that much problem since it cannot be played in first turns anyway.

Your list is packing 4*Moat as only WW absolute requirement. Moat prevents you from playing a lot from the best possible creatures.

[Tacosnape]

Moat also prevents three quarters of the decks in Legacy from getting any use out of their creatures, either.

I freely admit I don't quite follow the logic of Mirror Entity, however.

@Phantom: Have you tested Burrenton Bombardier at all in this deck? He flies and I love the idea of Reinforce, though I wonder if his body's too small to get the job done.

EDIT: Also, Stonehewer Giant might be insane in this shell aside from Moat. Swing, activate, attach SOFI or Jitte, win.