[Deck] Vial Affinity

[Xero]

First, I realize that there are other threads about Affinity; however, none of them really discusses the version of the deck that has had the most success. Anyways, here is a list:

Vial Affinity:

Creatures:
4x Archbound Ravager
4x Frogmite
4x Myr Enforcer
4x Disciple of the Vault
3x Atog
3x Ornithopter
3x Archbound Worker

Spells:
4x Aether Vial
4x Chromatic Star
4x Thoughtcast
3x Cranial Plating
3x Fling

Land:
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Vault of Whispers
4x Great Furnace
2x Darksteel Citadel
2x Blinkmoth Nexus
1x Glimmervoid

Sideboard;
3x Tormod’s Crypt
3x Pithing Needle
3x Engineered Plague
4x Cabal Therapy
2x Sphere of Resistance

Card Choices:
Vial vs. Paradise Mantle: Vial is just better. It helps immensely versus Aggro-Control decks like Gro and Madness, against Control decks, and as a way of surprising opponents. There’s nothing like Vialing in a disciple in response to Akroma’s Vengeance for the win. Mantle, on the other hand, smoothes out the mana-base. With only 14 colored spells, 7 of which are easily castable via vial, Mantle in not that great.

4 Myr Enforcers: Arguably the slowest card in the deck, Enforcers can still come down on turns 3-4 with ease. They are extremely good against Gro and Madness, and help with the Goblin match-up too. One big thing in Enforcers favor is that they fight through some of the common hate brought against Affinity: Pernicious Deed will almost never be big enough to kill them, and Null Rod does nothing to a resolved Enforcer.

Fling vs. Berserk: Fling allows you to win at instant speed, without attacking. Furthermore, running Berserk virtually guarantees that you will be cutting blue, which means no Thoughtcast. That’s a mistake, Thougtcast is necessary for refilling your hand after a big turn. Fling also allows you to kill creatures if absolutely necesseary. Kataki or Goblin Welder can kill you: fling gives Affinity a way to get rid of those creatures.

Match-ups:

Gro: Favorable. The red version is generally easier to beat than the white one. Affinity brings creatures out far faster than gro, and Enforcer/Ravager are often the biggest things on the table. First turn vial is extremely good, as it allows you to bring in your most dangerous creatures without worrying about counters.

Goblins: Depends highly on version. RW is slightly unfavorable, mono-red is about even in my experience. Again, Enforcers and ravagers are often the biggest critters around. Both decks are very fast, so going all out might not be a bad idea. Sideboarding helps. Obviously, the match-up gets much harder if Goblins are running multiple Tinkers or Disenchant.

Solidarity: Bad. Sometimes, you get the 3-4 turn win and they don’t have counters. Otherwise, you loose. Cabal Therapy out of the sideboard helps some.

Other Aggro-control (Madness/Fish/etc.) Favorable. These decks usually have trouble with large creatures on the board.


Playing the deck: Affinity can play as straight aggro or as aggro-combo. Early in the game, Frogmites, Myr Enforcers, and Archbound Workers can knock your opponents life total down enough for a lethal strike via Atog/Ravager + Fling (/Disciple). Cranial Plating can also cause combo kills. For instance: attacking with worker, frogmite, frogmite (cranial plating + vault of whipers +glimmervoid in play) against werebear, nimble mongoose. Your opponent will most likely block the two frogmites; allowing you to attach the plating at instant speed to the worker and hit for 6. Plating + Fling is a strong combo. Attack with a plated creature, and then fling after damage has been dealt.

Turns 2-3 are the most important for Affinity, especially with vial. By turn 2, you should be able to cast Frogmites for 0-1, play thoughtcast, or cast Ravager/Atog/Cranial Plating. By turn 3, Myr Enforcer should cost 0-3, Cranial Plating can be cast + equipped, and extra artifacts (ornithopter, chromatic star) can be turned into fuel for ravager/atog.

The optimal opening hand is something like: artifact land, vial, ornithopter. With a turn 2 arti. land, Fromgites are free and Thoughtcast costs U. Workers and Disciples are uncounterable and can be played at instant speed through vial. Two counters on vial turn three means that Atogs and Ravagers can be played through vial, and Enforcers are cheap/free.


Fighting Hate: There's plenty of strong hate for Affinity. Somethings you might face:

Pernicious Deed: Pre-sideboard, this card can kill your lands and severly stunt development. However, Fromgites and especially Myr Enfocers are out of Deed range until the late game (if your opponent is able to deed away enforcers, you've probably aleady lost anyway). If your opponent is playing B/G, hold back at least one land. Needle on Deed obviously helps immensely. If there are many deeds in your environment, consider maindecking Needles and increasing the amount of Darksteel Citadels.

Energy Flux: Arguably the best card against Affinity. If this hits play on turns 2-3, your probably done. Your best chance is to try and keep one big creature (probably Ravager) alive while saccing everything else. If your opponent is playing this, it should be the thing Therapy names.

Null Rod: This kills large portions of your deck. It does nothing against resolved Frogmites, Myr Enforcers, or Disciples however, so play agressively against decks packing Null Rod.

Blood Moon: Shuts down your articfact lands. This is difficult but not impossible to play around. If you suspect Blood Moon, hold onto Chromatic Stars for important colered spells like Thougtcast and Disciple.




Finally, (fully recognizing that this might be an inappropriate place to do so) I think that Vial Affinity should be considered a DTB. It has top 8’d in multiple large and diverse tournaments (8 or so tournaments with over 50 people) and has a reasonably well-established list.

[al the great]

I personally agree that Affinity should be in open legacy discussion. The past few years my friends have won countless times in 20 man Legacy tourneys with affinity.

[Phantom]

I do agree that Affinity should be in the open forum, but I think it deserves a much better write up than this. Mantle vs. Vial, Berserk vs. Fling, and Confidant vs. No Confidant all deserve a much closer look without biased personal opinions. T8 lists and advanced playtips would be nice too. Also, discussing the decks weakness to hate and potential ways to bypass these cards would be nice.

There is no way the deck belongs in the Metagame forum though. All those decks have 10+ showings over on the Historical Top 8 thread. Affinity only has 5, and only 3 came at major american events.

[Bane of the Living]

It doesnt really matter that Affinity has 5. Its not in the LMF its in the Open Forum. I think we have enough discussion on affinity already though. Keep to an exsisting thread. It doesnt matter if 8 cards are different.

[Peter_Rotten]

A quick search revealed in N&D one rather weak thread on an unconventional take on Affinity. I'll leave this thread open since it discusses the more popular list, but I wish we had a stornger and more developed Opening post.

[Zilla]

I do agree that Affinity should be in the open forum, but I think it deserves a much better write up than this. Mantle vs. Vial, Berserk vs. Fling, and Confidant vs. No Confidant all deserve a much closer look without biased personal opinions.

So write about it. The thread exists for a reason, and while it may come as a surprise, that reason doesn't include discussion about whether or not this thread belongs in the Open forum.

[Xero]

I added some more content to the opening post. Any suggestions for improving it further would be welcome.

Mantle vs. Vial, Berserk vs. Fling, and Confidant vs. No Confidant all deserve a much closer look without biased personal opinions.

I'll admit to not testing Confidant very much (not enough to write knowledgably on it, at least). As far as Vial/Mantle and Fling/Berserk go, I have tested them and discussed as much in the first post. The lack of Vial can kill you against decks with counterspells, Vial smoothes out your manabase, and it accelerate just as well as mantle does. Berserk has never been good in my experience. When does it do something Fling can't? Fling has the added benefits of not requiring you to attack, giving creature kill to a deck that has no other way of killing creatures outside of combat, and being on-color. What sort of manabase are you running with Berserk? If your playing 4c, your manabase is unstable and even more prone to hate than Affinity normally is. If you cut Blue, how does Berserk outweigh the benefits of being able to refill your hand via thoughtcast?

[Zilla]

If you suspect Blood Moon, hold onto Chromatic Stars for important colered spells like Fling and Disciple.

Blood Moon turns your lands into Mountains. Fling is red. Just sayin'.

[al the great]

I agree with Fling being better for this deck. Same with me my experience with Berserk has not been that great just because I end up having to trample through a bunch of random creatures (sometimes buff creatures) and fling is a great way out of that.

Berserks should be 5 bux :)

[Phantom]

So write about it. The thread exists for a reason, and while it may come as a surprise, that reason doesn't include discussion about whether or not this thread belongs in the Open forum.

Well, I would write about it, but one, I'm not an Affinity expert, and two, I was asking him to write about it in the opening post so it would have a greater effect. I know a lot of people only look at the opening post.

As for the discussion about whether or not this thread belongs in the Legacy Metagame Forum, the only reason I brought it up was to respond to something he said in the opening post, and I feel perfectly justified in responding to pretty much anything in an opening post.

I'll admit to not testing Confidant very much (not enough to write knowledgably on it, at least). As far as Vial/Mantle and Fling/Berserk go, I have tested them and discussed as much in the first post. The lack of Vial can kill you against decks with counterspells, Vial smoothes out your manabase, and it accelerate just as well as mantle does. Berserk has never been good in my experience. When does it do something Fling can't? Fling has the added benefits of not requiring you to attack, giving creature kill to a deck that has no other way of killing creatures outside of combat, and being on-color. What sort of manabase are you running with Berserk? If your playing 4c, your manabase is unstable and even more prone to hate than Affinity normally is. If you cut Blue, how does Berserk outweigh the benefits of being able to refill your hand via thoughtcast?

Here's what I'm saying. You've tested and have your opinions, but others have tested it and came to opposite conclusions. And when the other choice has placed in big tourneys, you should at least give it some respect. Here's what I would have written:

Mantle vs. Vial: Vial helps immensely versus Aggro-Control decks like Gro and Madness, against Control decks, and as a way of surprising opponents. There’s nothing like Vialing in a disciple in response to Akroma’s Vengeance for the win. Mantle, on the other hand, smoothes out the mana-base (note that the deck only plays 14 colored spells, 7 of which are easily castable via vial). Mantle does allow for some slightly more explosive starts thanks to it's 0 cc and mana production. 1st turn frogmites and 3 mana second turn are more common.

Fling vs. Berserk: Fling allows you to win at instant speed, without attacking. Fling also allows you to kill creatures if absolutely necesseary. Kataki or Goblin Welder can kill you: fling gives Affinity a way to get rid of those creatures. Fling's weakness is that a counterspell turns it into a 2-for-1 for the opponent. Berserk's major upside is that it allows you to get around annoying chump blockers (via trample). Berserk's drawbacks are that a StP turn it into a 2-for-1 for the opponent, and that it is green, meaning running Berserk virtually guarantees that you will be cutting blue, which means no Thoughtcasts.

Confidant vs. No Confidant: Confidant is draw with a body. It works well with Vial (as Vialing in a Confidant EOT usually leads to at least one extra draw) and should certainly be considered for builds not running blue. Confidant, however, does cost you life, and you would almost have to drop the Enforcers. No Confidant is a more explosive, and perhaps less consistent build.

[Bane of the Living]

If this affinity thread is here for this particular winning list, without Confidant, and with Thoughcast. You could argue for changes to include Confidant but that takes the deck in another direction. We have a thread for Dark Affinity, U/W Affinity (Skynet), and Berserk Affinity. This build is niether of those, lets continue discussion on this build.

I agree that Mantle vs Vial is a viable arguement because both serve separate functions in the deck. I would like to add that when playing Enforcers I've always liked the 0 drop artifacts to help get him on the table. Though Im not sure that artifact needs to be Mantle. Mantle is nice to equip onto Disciple of course but also Meddling Mage or Confidant if your playing either, since we arent Ill push another option. SillyMetalGAT has had success playing Tormods Crypt in the main. It accels your affinity and gives you a nice maindeck trump to the best deck in the format.

[xsockmonkeyx]

I have a problem with the statement that Vial is just better than Mantle. They are both viable options and they do different things, thereby, I would reserve any value judgement without taking into consideration the meta and the pilot.

In turn, I have a problem with this thread being about Vial Affinity only. Mantle Affinity and Vial Affinity are very similar and devoting the thread to only Vial Affinity would be too narrow a discussion IMO. Its somewhat akin to the different versions of Vial Goblins (splash/mono, ports/no ports, etc.). There are many versions of that deck yet they are in the same thread b/c they are very much the same.

[Xero]

We have a thread for Dark Affinity, U/W Affinity (Skynet), and Berserk Affinity. This build is niether of those, lets continue discussion on this build.

I don't think there is a thread for Berserk Affinity. At least, I can't find it anywhere.

Does anyone have thoughts on the deck itself? I am mainly curious about the sideboard and Chromatic Star vs. Terrarion as mana fixers.

[SillyMetalGAT]

I don't think there is a thread for Berserk Affinity. At least, I can't find it anywhere.

Does anyone have thoughts on the deck itself? I am mainly curious about the sideboard and Chromatic Star vs. Terrarion as mana fixers.

Chromatic Star vs. Terrarion isnt even an arguement. Chromatic Star blows Terrarion out of the water. The only benefit to using Terrarion is that it nets you 2 cards as opposed to 1, but you rarely ever use it to fix mana, where Chromatic Star is much more mana efficient.

[TheDarkshineKnight]

Just for reference:

Vial Affinity:

Maindeck:

Artifacts
4 Aether Vial
3 Cranial Plating
4 Terrarion

Artifact Creatures
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Frogmite
2 Ornithopter

Creatures
3 Atog
4 Disciple Of The Vault

Instants
3 Fling

Lands
2 Blinkmoth Nexus

Sorceries
4 Thoughtcast

Artifact Lands
1 Ancient Den
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat Of The Synod
4 Vault Of Whispers

Lands
2 Glimmervoid

Sideboard:
3 Pithing Needle
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Winter Orb
3 Engineered Plague

This list is essentially the combination of the two highest placing Vial Affnity builds I could find. Everything on that list was in both decks with at least that amount. Obviously, this is a good core for an Affinity deck. I do believe there are 9 maindeck and 5 sidedeck slots to fill.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Mantle Affinity:

Maindeck:

Artifacts
4 Cranial Plating
4 Paradise Mantle

Artifact Creatures
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
3 Ornithopter

Artifact Lands
4 Darksteel Citadel

Creatures
3 Atog
4 Disciple Of The Vault

Instants
3 Fling

Lands
3 Blinkmoth Nexus

Sorceries
4 Thoughtcast

Artifact Lands
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat Of The Synod
4 Vault Of Whispers

Sideboard:
3 Pithing Needle
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Engineered Plague
4 Annul
2 Darkblast

This is the Mantle Affinity list that placed 3rd at the D4D.

-----------------------------------------------------------

So, looking at both lists, this seems to be the optimal core to build any Affinity deck around:

Maindeck:

Artifacts
3 Cranial Plating

Artifact Creatures
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Frogmite
2 Ornithopter

Creatures
3 Atog
4 Disciple Of The Vault

Instants
3 Fling

Lands
2 Blinkmoth Nexus

Sorceries
4 Thoughtcast

Artifact Lands
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat Of The Synod
4 Vault Of Whispers

Sideboard:
3 Pithing Needle
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Engineered Plague

Merry Christmas.

[Xero]

Thanks.

Chromatic Star vs. Terrarion isnt even an arguement. Chromatic Star blows Terrarion out of the water. The only benefit to using Terrarion is that it nets you 2 cards as opposed to 1, but you rarely ever use it to fix mana, where Chromatic Star is much more mana efficient.

I tend to agree. Chromatic Star is great because it can be sacced to Ravager or Atog and you still get to draw a card. It even helps against mass removal. Terrarion might be better if someone wanted to add more colored cards, however.

In turn, I have a problem with this thread being about Vial Affinity only. Mantle Affinity and Vial Affinity are very similar and devoting the thread to only Vial Affinity would be too narrow a discussion IMO. Its somewhat akin to the different versions of Vial Goblins (splash/mono, ports/no ports, etc.). There are many versions of that deck yet they are in the same thread b/c they are very much the same.

I should change the name of the thread. I think that Vial is better, but feel free to discuss Mantle.

[the_show]

SillyMetalGAT has had success playing Tormods Crypt in the main. It accels your affinity and gives you a nice maindeck trump to the best deck in the format.

I 100% AGREE with that statement. It also does sick things to Iggy Pop, Salvager, and annoys Solidarity (ie. Flash of Insight).

Anyone feel like getting a flame war started???? Fling Vs Shrapnel Blast. IMO Blast has a slight edge in that when its countered your opponent gets a 2-for-1. When Fling get countered your opponent usually gets more than a 2-for-1. The only time when this is not the case is when you have an equipped Cranial Plating. The thing I like about Shrapnel Blast is its used primarily as a reactive spell when an artifact is targeted by removal or mass removal and secondly as an offensive spell when eliminating a blocker or sending the final points of damage to the head. Fling takes a more aggressive approach by saying, "I kill you now and prey to God you don't have a counter or StP in hand". Fling probably has a higher average of damage dealt but is reliant on Ravanger, Atog, or Plating to be a real threat. Meanwhile you're staring at your opponent who has a Tundra and an island open and has just uttered the two words you don't want to hear, "In response......". My point is, they both do the job but with a different degree of risk and style.

[Hanni]

I think Shrapnel Blast is better. It's much more reliable and consistent... you don't have to have a ton of conditions to be met in order for it to be useful. You can sac a Chromatic Star to destroy a potential blocker so that your Myr Enforcer can attack unblocked (and draw a card). You can fling the last 5 points of damage you need to the dome.

Fling can be risky sometimes and generally requires that you have either Atog, Ravager, or Cranial Plating to be good. I just like Shrapnel Blast alot better.

[Bane of the Living]

IMO Fling is shit because now theres this thing called Slit Second and it completely pwns affinity. The all in Fling seems like a bad idea more and more. You can already go all in by saccing your board with Disciple out and swinging with one fat guy. If you do that you still have Modular to back you up, Fling basically works or you lose because it didnt.

[kicks_422]

Split Second hasn't made a dent in Legacy yet, though...

I also think that Thoughtcast is pretty weak... It also forces you to play UBR, which gives you no Disenchant effects...

I run a Confidant build, BRg, with green for sideboard Naturalizes. I also think lack of removal hurts the deck some, so I add in a full playset of Jittes.

I don't think that speed is the way for Affinity to go, IMHO. It gets those fast, broken starts every once in a while, but what if the deck doesn't? I do miss the big fat body of an Enforcer, but drawing more Ravager food or two disciples in a row from Confidant helps make up for that.