[Deck] Solidarity (Reset High Tide)

[Lukas Preuss]

Well, David Gearhart answered that question already:

Solidarity Mirror usually comes down to who has the most experience. The easiest thing to liken it to is a Mexican Standoff. The first guy to blink is the dead one, unless, the guy who blinks can support the blinkage. See? Kind of confusing. (If you don't know what a Mexican Standoff is.....for shame) By the way, the Solidarity mirror match will frequently take 1 1/2 to 3 hours.

I haven't been able to test the mirror alot, but I've tested Solidarity against Spring Tide (which is much easier). You basically wait until they cast their High Tide(s) and than you try to combo in response to one of their crucial spells.
I'm running two Twincasts in the Sideboard and have thought about bringing them in against the mirror (boarding out Resets). In this case, I would try to go off with one of their Resets on the stack, so I could Twincast it over and over again. I still have to test this, though.


One last thing I wanted to say: Peek is just nuts. I was running two Peeks in my deck at GP Lille and I absolutely loved them every time I saw them. They're great against Threshold, Control and the mirror...

[Lego]

Right, so that doesn't help much ;) I think what I got from that is that you don't want to try to go off first, unless you've got a killer hand. Basically I just don't ever want to have to play it. I suck at this deck :) Much time is needed to learn :)

Did you say you try to go off when Spring Tide's Resets are on the stack? I'm going to assume you mean Solidarity and I just read that wrong. Seems like a good idea, that or going off with Meditate on the stack, drawin' lots of cards is good. But it seems crazy to cast High Tides and up the storm so much, although I guess if you cast a couple Meditates they'll lose first, even if they Brain Freeze (unless they have the words of Wisdom, but you can Brain Freeze in response)... that just works me into the conundrum of, um, I suck at this game.

[Lukas Preuss]

I was talking about Solidarity when I mentioned Reset. :)

Much time is needed to learn

Yeah, right.. but it's worth the effort... :;):

[Lego]

Much time is needed to learn

Yeah, right.. but it's worth the effort... :;):

Is it? I don't think I'll ever have to run the mirror in tournament play. Or did I mean much time is needed to learn to play the deck in general? Because that's worth it :)

[My Name Is Scott]

Btw, this is what the new build can fight through.

This is deep6er peeking at madzur's hand. 4 forces, 3 counterspells, and a sea drake. Remand=awesome. Peek=awesome. Both players=savage cheaters.

Is it? I don't think I'll ever have to run the mirror in tournament play. Or did I mean much time is needed to learn to play the deck in general? Because that's worth it :)

A little of both, actually. If you play the deck, you're going to have to play the mirror eventually. You have to learn all the tricks as well.

[AngryTroll]

How on earth do you go off through that? Did Madzur have the mana to cast half of those counters? I have seen storm combo (TJS a couple times, and Solidarity a couple times) go off through two or three counters, but 4? Or more then that with islands untapped? I know it can happen, but it usually involves quite a story.

To make a relevent point, what is the referred-to new build?

How bad of a matchup is threshold, really? Mage, Force, and Daze all serve for countermagic, and the deck still manages to put on some pressure. However, they only pack 2-3 Counterspells and 4 Force, along with Daze, which can be played around. Mage seems like it could be the biggest problem.

[AnwarA101]

How on earth do you go off through that? Did Madzur have the mana to cast half of those counters? I have seen storm combo (TJS a couple times, and Solidarity a couple times) go off through two or three counters, but 4? Or more then that with islands untapped? I know it can happen, but it usually involves quite a story.

To make a relevent point, what is the referred-to new build?

How bad of a matchup is threshold, really? Mage, Force, and Daze all serve for countermagic, and the deck still manages to put on some pressure. However, they only pack 2-3 Counterspells and 4 Force, along with Daze, which can be played around. Mage seems like it could be the biggest problem.

I think MadZur ended up casting 4 of his counterspells. I think that game is the exception to the rule. Though Solidarity might be able to win games against hands like that most of the time it will just lose.

The matchup is quite bad. You are trapped by the countermagic and the Werebear/Mongoose that is beating you down. You don't have the option of waiting against control nor the option of going off as soon as possible against aggro. The worst of the both worlds. But I don't think this is anything new. Isn't it well established that Gro is very good against combo and Solidarity is no exception.

[Lukas Preuss]

I think MadZur ended up casting 4 of his counterspells. I think that game is the exception to the rule. Though Solidarity might be able to win games against hands like that most of the time it will just lose.

But the great thing about Solidarity is, that it doesn't lose all the time, whereas every other combo deck just scoops to a hand like that. :) If you really wanted to play combo in a control oriented meta, Solidarity would be your pick, because all the other combo decks are significantly worse against control (there might be a few combo decks that are not as bad, but I think you know what I'm talking about).

[Lego]

(there might be a few combo decks that are not as bad, but I think you know what I'm talking about).

You're talking about that amazing Ninja Gaiden list that's floating around, aren't you? (Just kidding)

What is the new list, anyway? I see that people have begun to include Peek, which is awesome, but otherwise, what are people playing these days? I assume no huge innovations have been made that I missed out on, but I'm still playing Deep6er's old list from quite some time ago. Pre-GP Philly at the very least.

[Deep6er]

Just a couple of things to note here. MadZur had the ability to play 5 counterspells. 3 Counterspells and 2 Forces (by pitching the other Forces) and he had a Thresh'ed Mongoose in play with me at 6. Dear Jesus, I must be some kind of good at this game. :)

Anyway, on to the new list. I was actually waiting to spring this for the Dual for Duals but there is a very slim possibility that I won't be playing Solidarity because of the ridiculously huge presence of Threshold. Although, to be fair, not many Threshold players know exactly how to beat Solidarity and me being rather good with the deck is another disadvantage they have. So, it could go either way.

4 High Tide
2 Peek
2 Opt
4 Brainstorm
2 Brain Freeze
4 Reset
4 Impulse
4 Remand
1 Twincast
3 Cunning Wish
3 Meditate
3 Turnabout
4 Force of Will
2 Flash of Insight

4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
12 Island

Sideboard
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Turnabout
1 Meditate
1 Twincast
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Evacuation
4 Hydroblast
4 Disrupt (Probably going to change)

Remand is strong but hasn't been fully tested. However, Remanding your own Freeze proves to be absolutely ridiculous. Once again, the Twincast in the board is for SIDEBOARDING NOT FOR WISHING! Too many people are under the assumption that because it's a one of in the board means you wish for it. That is simply not true, in this situation, you board it in for control and Threshold. The Disrupt in the board proves to be amazing against faster combo decks, but dismal against Threshold and thus should probably change. Whenever I have a concrete plan for Threshold I'll give you guys the lowdown.

[Lukas Preuss]

I just found an interesting card in the Guildpact Spoiler over on MTG Salvation:

Quicken U
Instant
The next sorcery spell you play this turn can be played any time any time you could play an instant.
Draw a card.


This might be very interesting, since it could make cards like Diminishing Returns, Ideas Unbound, or Merchant Scroll playable for Solidarity... Oh, and you get to draw a card... seems pretty awesome. :)

[Pyrokinesis]

That would be way, way too inconsistent. Yes, it's ridiculous, but.. yeah. Reeeeally inconsistent. Until you play that any sorcery spell you draw is going to be a dead card... although I suppose they could be used for hand-sculpting and whatnot. Drawing Diminishing Returns right after Black.dec has eviscerated your hand (Or a failed early combo attempt v. Gro) would be nice...

Inconsistency. Argh.

[Lukas Preuss]

Well, I would not run four Diminishing Returns in the maindeck... maybe only one or two... this way, you would only draw them when going off and after you already played one of these new spells from Quildpact. Actually, I don't really know how good it would be, but I think it's worth testing.

[AnwarA101]

I just found an interesting card in the Guildpact Spoiler over on MTG Salvation:

Quicken U
Instant
The next sorcery spell you play this turn can be played any time any time you could play an instant.
Draw a card.


This might be very interesting, since it could make cards like Diminishing Returns, Ideas Unbound, or Merchant Scroll playable for Solidarity... Oh, and you get to draw a card... seems pretty awesome. :)

Are you really willing to play sorceries in a deck that operates at instant speed? That means if you draw a sorcery before you draw your Quicken you will draw a dead card. That makes it much more likely that you will fizzle because you are drawing dead.

If you want to play sorceries in Solidarity play Spring Tide it makes so much more sense.

[Lego]

I agree that it wouldn't be good to put in possibly dead cards. Quicken would have to be a 4 of, and would have to replace one of the more effective one mana cantrips. If Cunning Wish could grab sorceries, this could possibly replace one of the 1 mana cantrips, but that's simply not the case.

@ Deep6er, props on the Remand -> Brain Freeze play, it's just killer.

[MattH]

@ Deep6er, props on the Remand -> Brain Freeze play, it's just killer.

Yeah, no one was thinking of that over a month ago.

In other news, if you're going to Quicken something, the #1 choice has got to be Merchant Scroll, since it can be cast at normal speed as a setup card (doesn't REQUIRE Quicken).

The best Threshold plan might be to play Mind Harness and turn the tables, especially since StP is the first thing they'll side out (so they'll have to block your Werebear to remove it, getting you a 2-for-1 [and that's two juicy threat cards, not two random cantrips or lands]) and you probably have an even easier time hitting threshold than they do, what with cantrips+fetches+a small Brain Freeze on your own library. Don't be locked into thinking that all 15 cards have to be wishable! It can also buy some time against Goblins if it comes to that.

The biggest downside of that plan is that it does nothing to stop their biggest threat, Meddling Mage. Submerge might be better for that.

[Lego]

Sorry, I don't read anything but the Source. It's part of my belief that the Source is the only existing Legacy forum. Showing me other Legacy forums won't cange that belief.

Have you tested Mind Harness? Thresh is the only reason I'm not playing this deck right now (and I just got the Resets too *cry*)

[gnurbel2000]

[color=#000000:post_uid1]Did anyone tried Grip of Amnesia for the Threshold matchup?
It replaces itself and can set them back from Threshold for about 2 turns or it counters one for their critters. If they didn't drop a Meddling Mage naming High Tide it can be enough time to win befor they kill you.

P.S.: Hallo :;):[/color:post_uid1]

[GAUDARD]

...

Remand is strong but hasn't been fully tested. However, Remanding your own Freeze proves to be absolutely ridiculous. Once again, the Twincast in the board is for SIDEBOARDING NOT FOR WISHING! Too many people are under the assumption that because it's a one of in the board means you wish for it. That is simply not true, in this situation, you board it in for control and Threshold. The Disrupt in the board proves to be amazing against faster combo decks, but dismal against Threshold and thus should probably change. Whenever I have a concrete plan for Threshold I'll give you guys the lowdown.

I played with Remand tonight, it seemed pritty good. It's good for tempo, because you counter their turn 2 or 3 play and it puts you a turn a head basicly...

As for what would help the threshold matchup... no idea. Splash white for Chant... I played against it tonight, while it didn't seem like it was an easy matchup, it didn't seem to be that bad. Daze can be played around, and peak is quite helpful :-) Remanding their counterspells doesn't seem very good though. Maybe Gainsay?

[PTBNL]

I've mentioned this before... how about splashing red to help with the Threshold matchup? Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast efficiently answer most of the problem cards of Threshold: Meddling Mage, Force of Will, Counterspell.