[Deck] RGB Survival Advantage (current builds)

[Mulletus]

Ok, yesterday I played this at the first good legacy event in years in the cuse. It only had 13 players, but it was a powerhouse group. There was 10 out of the top 25 in the city, with #'s 1, 2 (1850+); 5, 6, 8, 9 (1800+); 12, 18, 21, 24. I went 3-1 with this new trial run of the black splash. I lost round one to Hollywood (Alegend) playing Dredge-atog. I was stuck on one land after he Forced my turn one Bird, but his draw was crazy. He won on turn 4. Round two I beat mono-red goblins; Three I beat white-splash-Goblins against Trevor (getsickandie); Four I beat a 4-color mirror piloted by Matt (bigbear).

Now for the list. I do have to add though that if you aren't familiar with playing Survival varients, you have no clue how hard it is to squeeze new cards into a deck, let alone a new color.

Lands
4 Tiaga
4 Bayou
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept heath
5 Forest
1 Mountain

Yes that's just 20, I might jump on the 61st card bandwagon with another Forest. I have Goldfished with the heaths as Bloodstained mires, but Forest needs to be searchable with all fetches. And I know I can just get the duals, but Wasteland is in too many main decks. If my opening hand is Fetch lands only, I need to make sure I dont get beat by a single card like Wasteland.

Green
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Basking Rootwalla
3 Ravenous Baloth
3 Eternal Witness
2 Werebear
1 Genesis
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary

I know not everybody is going to be a fan of the Basking Rootwallas. But please understand that after dropping Llanowar Elves that left my turn one Lackey blockers to just Birds. Not to mention the obvious fact that Birds dont kill Lackey, Basking Rootwalla has great synergy with Survival of the Fittest. That and they are cheap to get back out after a board clearing effect via Genisis. I personally like to get one back later game with an Eternal Witness, it's a free creature if you're going off with Survival of the Fittest. I also added Werebear. The deck loves to accelerate, but after you have lands out there Birds of Paradise is a dead draw. This is a beater late game, and if your gong for the kill, two of these cost the same as one Ravenous Baloth with double the damage. I decided to have the 4th Eternal Witness be one of the cards I cut. Too many times have I drawn mutiples with no good targets. That makes them overpriced 2/1's. Don't get me wrong, it's amazing... I can just deal with one less.

Red
4 Flametongue Kavu
3 Burning Wish
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Anger
1 Tin Street Hooligan

Let's see, The biggest difference here is the fact that I dropped a Burning Wish. Like the Eternal Witness, it was something I was tired of drawing multiples of. These too, are great cards, but they are really in there to help the game one matchup against the archtypes. Once I know what my opponent is playing I can drop them games two and three for the hate I want. I will go over the targets later in the sideboard section. Next big difference is the Tin Street Hooligan, he is replacing the Viridian Zealot. I don't think theres that many enchantments that are played in tier 1 that a Zealot will handle. Tin Street Hooligan kills Jitte, Vial, Stax, and Affinity. The cost is also right in line with a 20 land deck. I don't need to kill stuff with him if I'm trying to race. He comes back real cheaply, and with the 2 power he blocks and kills any Goblin. Zealot got to be just too expansive to manage, and couldnt swing after using the effect.

Black
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Dark Confidant
1 Bone Shredder

Well Combo is getting to be a house these days. I need some sort of main deck hate. The Cabal Therapy lets me guess on what I fear. With all the creatures in the deck, 3 copies is really like 6. Creatures can come back, combo piesces can't (usually). It mainly gives my deck the time it needs to get in there, or a fair chance against decks it would normally not stand up to. The Dark Confidant is a card I might need to go to 3-of with. The problem with that is I had to kill my own with a Flametongue Kavu. The good thing is though that I am constantly thinning out the deck with Survival, so I hit a lot of lands. The highest I can get hit with is 5 from Genisis, but that's a 1-of. The worse I see getting hit with is 4, but if that happens it's either a Flametongue Kavu or a Ravenous Baloth. In either case it's worth it: the Ravenous Baloth replaces the life and is a beater, and the Flametongue Kavu is removal and a beater. I also like the giant target he get's on his forehead. People use removal on him before they spend it on other threats showing, and he's cheap to get back with Genisis. Bone Shredder is the anti-pro-red removal this deck needs. There's no Sharpshooter anymore, so a 5-butt is hard to deal with. That and with Jitte and Sword out there, strait damage isn't always the way to go. He flies also, and too often that matters.

Artifacts
2 Aether Vial

Well this one is still a tough call for me. The deck used to run 9 acceleration cards with Birds, Elves, and Rofellos. Now that its down to 7, and the average casting cost bumped up with Werebear... the deck needs another way to blow up early. The is also very good against control because of the uncounterability. It also gives the deck a few extra tricks. With one at 3 or 4, and an open Survival, the deck doesn't need to be played on your own turn. I am really torn about going down to 2, but I needed to fit other stuff in. The deck is obviously creature based, so why not use something this broken in it.

#'s
Ok before I get into my sideboard I'd like to break down some of the numbers of the deck:
1cc 13: 8 creatures, 3 sorceries, 2 artifacts
2cc 13: 6 creatures, 4 enchantments, 3 sorceries
3cc 5: 5 creatures
4cc 8: 8 creatures
5cc 1: 1 creature
Average casting cost = 2.275
28 Creatures = 47%
20 Lands = 33%
12 Others = 20%

Sideboard
3 Engineered Plague
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Pyroclasm
1 Tsunami
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Meltdown
1 Land Grant
1 Indrik Stomphowler

Let's start with the Wish targets. The main differences here are the Land Grant, and Meltdown. The addition of the 3rd color, makes the Land Grant better and the deck more consistant. It also makes the Wish a little less dead when you draw it against a deck you don't have targets for. Meltdown is a board clearer, and very affordable. Affinity can run right over you if you're not carefull. Also not too many artifacts are going to be higher than 3cc in this speedy format, so 3R can wipe them out. I left out a couple key cards, Reverent Silence, and hull Breach. I will prolly use these again, but the the meta didnt have any enchantments that I needed to hate out. At larger events I will play Reverent Silence, because of Enchantress and Humilty Based decks. The acc makes it great too. Hull Breach is very versatile, but it doesn't wipe the board like the Silence and Meltdown. I like the Stomphowler because I need somesort of enchantment control, and it's a bear, so I can sack it for life to the Baloth. The Sideboard is debatable per meta. I like my main deck chances aginst Goblins, but I still want a significant chnunk of combo hate. That's why I use 3 slots for Goblins, and 6 for Combo. (besides the wish targets)

Lands
4 Tiaga
4 Bayou
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept heath
5 Forest
1 Mountain
Green
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Basking Rootwalla
3 Ravenous Baloth
3 Eternal Witness
2 Werebear
1 Genesis
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
Red
4 Flametongue Kavu
3 Burning Wish
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Anger
1 Tin Street Hooligan
Black
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Dark Confidant
1 Bone Shredder
Artifacts
2 Aether Vial

Well there ya have it. I plan on getting much more testing done against the DTB's and other tier one decks. I think the old thread was getting a little cluttered. I will update this with matchup results. I would like to have Dave Price put his current list up here too, saince we are like the Survival-Advantage Patron Saints.

[Tacosnape]

Boggle this list. No Duress or anything? And Dark Confidant in a deck full of 4-5 drops?

I think Dave Price's list is far stronger than this and had hoped the RGBSA thread would be based on the deck that's been posting streaks of Top 8's recently.

[Mulletus]

Boggle this list. No Duress or anything? And Dark Confidant in a deck full of 4-5 drops?

I think Dave Price's list is far stronger than this and had hoped the RGBSA thread would be based on the deck that's been posting streaks of Top 8's recently.

Yeah, there's always going to be haters. Maybe I should have waited untill I played more. Just because I haven't played in many sanctioned or major events lately doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. I made Top 8 at Kadilak's DLD 2, and 30th at GP Phillly where I got a Pro Point for playing RGSA. I have 152 sanctioned Eternal events with an 1866 rating. But yeah you're right, I don't know what I'm talking about.

No Duress because it only works once, and it cant get creatures. If I play first against Goblins I can go Land-Therapy-Lackey. If I miss, I know what to call. Duress is kinda dead against Goblins. And it's not like the deck is "full" of 4-5 drops... 15% is odds I like. It makes the deck run more consistantly without Survival.

[Whit3 Ghost]

Would you consider Last Rites as a Wish target?

It can leave Combo or Controll with no hand and is pretty much a must answer by most forms of Combo.

[Alex_Van_R]

Would you consider Last Rites as a Wish target?

It can leave Combo or Controll with no hand and is pretty much a must answer by most forms of Combo.

I think that it would take too much time. You really need turn 2 Burning Wish (when you'd play Survival otherwise) and after that a turn 3 Last Rites. If you can't do that, it won't be very effective. (edit: against combo)

[eclipsemonger]

i just don't see 20 lands being enough no matter how you look at it....especially when your up against wasteland and rishadan port.

[troopatroop]

i just don't see 20 lands being enough no matter how you look at it....especially when your up against wasteland and rishadan port.

20 lands with 4 Bop 2 Werebear and Rofellos. Not to mention Eternal Witness for Sac-lands if it was a problem. Survival doesn't really need a whole lot of land to go insane under, usually about 3-5.

Honestly I can't see how people aren't running Quirion Ranger in any Survival build with Rofellos. I go for him every single time I have Survival and am not facing an immediate threat. He gives you 2 Rofellos activations + 1 mana every turn. How is being broken uneccessary?

Your manabase is perfect. Absolutely no changes there.

If you're going to play Aether Vial, you should be playing a singleton Spore Frog. It just reduces so many decks to 3 or 4 outs. Keep the counter at 1 and vial him in on their turn, and goblins can't win outside of Seige Gang, and without Prospecter it's going to be hard for anyone to go Combo like that. I think Vial is weak regardless, but it's certainly defendable.

I refuse to play Werebear. He doesn't curve well with the deck. He's bad when you're trying to accellerate, He's bad when you're trying to fix mana, He's only good when you need an undercosted beater, and that's only when you're late game, and that's where the deck is strong anyways. I play Jitte in those spots because it's makes your game amazing with Confidant, and Gro matchup stronger. I'd rather have Jitte against Thresh than Bear.

Rootwalla is just bad. Sure he's an answer to 1st turn Lackey. So in Llanowar elves.

I don't think you need more than 2 Baloths in the current environment. 4/4's for 4 answer Gro and Burn pretty well, that's about it. They're a good threat, but there are alot of things I want in the maindeck and 1 Baloth is Cuttable, along with 1 FTK and the Bone Spitter. Running Quirrion Ranger with Rofellos makes Masticore much better at dealing with Angel Stompy than Bone Spitter, especially facing Mother of Runes.

You need more than 3 discard spells to put up a fight against Combo. Game 1 you're basically scooping it up, and it's not like Duress is bad against "non tendrils storm combo" anyways. Regardless, slots are tight, and I can understand the lack of more Discard. DPrice runs 7. I tried it, but they were weak draws off the top, so I'm between 5-6. 3 Just seems weak tho as a Plan A against TES or IGGY.

[Di]

Honestly I can't see how people aren't running Quirion Ranger in any Survival build with Rofellos. I go for him every single time I have Survival and am not facing an immediate threat. He gives you 2 Rofellos activations + 1 mana every turn. How is being broken uneccessary?

People aren't running Quirion Ranger because there really isn't a justified reason to be running it. If there is a serious need for it or if there is some sort of card that becomes infinately better because of it e.g. Masticore, then its inclusion is fine. Otherwise, it is a 1/1 in an aggro deck. An additional 4/4 over this is justifiable because you aren't going to be accelerating into something ridiculous like Masticore. Rofellos is fine tapping for 4 and dropping multiple Werebears in this deck. If Masticore was here then it should be an auto-include, but seeing how it isn't here, it isn't necessary. Also, the deck runs plenty of basic lands, so the land protection ability isn't as important as something along the lines of an atrocious manabase such as my own.

Rootwalla is just bad. Sure he's an answer to 1st turn Lackey. So in Llanowar elves.

Llanowar Elves can too block Lackey, but won't live to tell about it, nor will it provide an able threat should it have to be. With 27 mana sources, the deck is fine without Llanowar Elves, and can benefit from an extra threat.

I refuse to play Werebear. He doesn't curve well with the deck. He's bad when you're trying to accellerate, He's bad when you're trying to fix mana, He's only good when you need an undercosted beater, and that's only when you're late game, and that's where the deck is strong anyways. I play Jitte in those spots because it's makes your game amazing with Confidant, and Gro matchup stronger. I'd rather have Jitte against Thresh than Bear.

Bad when you're trying to accelerate? The only other options you really have are Llanowar Elves and Wall of Roots. Llanowar Elves can come down turn 1, which has its obvious advantages, but after turn 3 or so it's a pathetic 1/1. Wall of Roots comes down the same turn as Werebear does, and will add more mana with a Survival in play, but it won't attack. Undercosted beater being lategame? Please. I play threshed Werebears as early as turn 4 and start attacking. Next turn, I play more of them and overhwelm the opponent. Even if it goes into the late game, it only costs a grand total of 6 mana to chain 2 of them into play (2 mana being survival activations), as opposed to 10 mana for multiple FTK or Baloth. That's a pretty substantial difference.

Your Jitte arguments with Threshold are basically pointless because that is arguably one of the deck's best matchups. But instead, you give them another card to name Pithing Needle with. Realize that a standard build of Threshold runs 2-3 Needle maindeck. More than likely the first one will be on Survival, but should they draw another you give them that option to hit it. Plus, Umezawa's Jitte is not a creature. This means that you can't recur it with Genesis, toss it to Survival, add mana, or sacrifice it to Cabal Therapy. Plus, it is not a threat on its own in the deck. Well, technically it is, but in order for it to be useful, it requires a non-Birds of Paradise creature. It's realistically not difficult to do that, but one of the fundamental principles of designing a survival deck is to make sure every slot is able to pull the weight on its own should it have to. Werebear is an incredibly cheap beatstick, and one of the best lategame topdecks you can have. Of course Umezawa's Jitte can do this as well, but it doesn't have the synergy in the deck like Werebear does.

You need more than 3 discard spells to put up a fight against Combo. Game 1 you're basically scooping it up, and it's not like Duress is bad against "non tendrils storm combo" anyways. Regardless, slots are tight, and I can understand the lack of more Discard. DPrice runs 7. I tried it, but they were weak draws off the top, so I'm between 5-6. 3 Just seems weak tho as a Plan A against TES or IGGY.

Duress is bad in the maindeck because it's bad against Goblins, which happens to be one of the more annoying and popular matchups. Basically I'm pretty sure the accepted gameplan against combo is to overhaul the sideboard. It's very hard to design the deck to have a positive game 1 combo matchup without messing up the other slots, so it's easy adding 6-9 anti-combo slots in the sideboard. If you noticed, mulletus has Pyrostatic Pillar and Chalice of the Void. He should be fine.

[troopatroop]

People aren't running Quirion Ranger because there really isn't a justified reason to be running it. If there is a serious need for it or if there is some sort of card that becomes infinately better because of it e.g. Masticore, then its inclusion is fine. Otherwise, it is a 1/1 in an aggro deck. An additional 4/4 over this is justifiable because you aren't going to be accelerating into something ridiculous like Masticore. Rofellos is fine tapping for 4 and dropping multiple Werebears in this deck. If Masticore was here then it should be an auto-include, but seeing how it isn't here, it isn't necessary. Also, the deck runs plenty of basic lands, so the land protection ability isn't as important as something along the lines of an atrocious manabase such as my own.



Llanowar Elves can too block Lackey, but won't live to tell about it, nor will it provide an able threat should it have to be. With 27 mana sources, the deck is fine without Llanowar Elves, and can benefit from an extra threat.



Bad when you're trying to accelerate? The only other options you really have are Llanowar Elves and Wall of Roots. Llanowar Elves can come down turn 1, which has its obvious advantages, but after turn 3 or so it's a pathetic 1/1. Wall of Roots comes down the same turn as Werebear does, and will add more mana with a Survival in play, but it won't attack. Undercosted beater being lategame? Please. I play threshed Werebears as early as turn 4 and start attacking. Next turn, I play more of them and overhwelm the opponent. Even if it goes into the late game, it only costs a grand total of 6 mana to chain 2 of them into play (2 mana being survival activations), as opposed to 10 mana for multiple FTK or Baloth. That's a pretty substantial difference.

Your Jitte arguments with Threshold are basically pointless because that is arguably one of the deck's best matchups. But instead, you give them another card to name Pithing Needle with. Realize that a standard build of Threshold runs 2-3 Needle maindeck. More than likely the first one will be on Survival, but should they draw another you give them that option to hit it. Plus, Umezawa's Jitte is not a creature. This means that you can't recur it with Genesis, toss it to Survival, add mana, or sacrifice it to Cabal Therapy. Plus, it is not a threat on its own in the deck. Well, technically it is, but in order for it to be useful, it requires a non-Birds of Paradise creature. It's realistically not difficult to do that, but one of the fundamental principles of designing a survival deck is to make sure every slot is able to pull the weight on its own should it have to. Werebear is an incredibly cheap beatstick, and one of the best lategame topdecks you can have. Of course Umezawa's Jitte can do this as well, but it doesn't have the synergy in the deck like Werebear does.



Duress is bad in the maindeck because it's bad against Goblins, which happens to be one of the more annoying and popular matchups. Basically I'm pretty sure the accepted gameplan against combo is to overhaul the sideboard. It's very hard to design the deck to have a positive game 1 combo matchup without messing up the other slots, so it's easy adding 6-9 anti-combo slots in the sideboard. If you noticed, mulletus has Pyrostatic Pillar and Chalice of the Void. He should be fine.

Howabout generating obscene amounts of mana? Casting Multiple FTKs or Baloths in one turn? The guy pays for his own mana cost for god sake, he only costs you a creature in your hand to go crazy. He's a 1/1 who stops wasteland and combos with your 6 1cc mana creatures. You know that this isn't an Aggro deck all the time, and sometimes you need to ramp up mana to recover from a bad position.

Jitte may not have as much synergy with the deck as Werebear, but It certainly flat out wins more games. It's a more powerful card. Period. If there was room for Werebear, I would cut Llanowar elves for it. Comparing Werebear to Jitte is like Apples to Oranges anyways. It should be more like Vial and Jitte because they're more similar I guess.

I haven't accepted my only out to storm combo being an overhauled Sideboard. If I can put 6 Discard spells with 3 Witness into my deck, with Dark confidant, I don't feel blown out going into that matchup. Even with Duress against Goblins not being all that good, it's good against everything else, and I plan on playing everything else alot more than goblins.

4 Survival of the Fittest
3 Burning Wish
3 Duress
3 Therapy

4 Dark Confidant
3 Llanowar Elves
3 Birds of Paradise
1 Rofellos
1 Quirion Ranger

3 Eternal Witness
1 Tin-Street
3 Flametounge Kavu
2 Ravenous Baloth
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Masticore

1 Anger
1 Squee
1 Genesis

4 Taiga
4 Bayou
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
5 Forest
1 Mountain

SB:
4 Engineered Plague
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Tsunami
1 Pyroclasm
1 Seeds of Innocense
1 Anarchy
1 Regrowth
1 Goblin Pyromancer
1 Loaming Shaman

My current list for reference. Regrowth in the SB because Quicksilver reminded me about how it gives you 2 of every bomb in the SB when you have double wish. It's strong when you need recursion and is a nice Utility piece to have. Seeds is better then Meltdown IMO. I wanna be able to kill Enforcer and not worry about it. If I'm clearing their board, I don't really care if they gain 10 life. Loaming Shaman for a good out to Enforcer. Pyromancer to be amazing against Goblins.

I'll tinker around with Elves out for Werbears. You may be right.

[Mulletus]

I haven't accepted my only out to storm combo being an overhauled Sideboard. If I can put 6 Discard spells with 3 Witness into my deck, with Dark confidant, I don't feel blown out going into that matchup. Even with Duress against Goblins not being all that good, it's good against everything else, and I plan on playing everything else alot more than goblins.

My build has 3 Cabal Therapy main, and on in the sideboard. With 3 Burning Wish, that's 6. Now factor in that each can be used twice (Once flashed back I can wish for them again) so that's like 12 main deck discards. Then I have 6 slots for combo exclusivley in the sideboard, and against TES I can bring the Engineered Plagues in too. Too much discard makes this a green based control deck, when you need it to be a green based agro-control. Combo is really big, and I need to be preppedfor it. I just don't want to hurt the deck's chances against other matchups.

[Tacosnape]

Duress is bad in the maindeck because it's bad against Goblins.

So it's disqualified for being good in only about 80% of your matchups, assuming a generous 20% Goblin Field?

[troopatroop]

My build has 3 Cabal Therapy main, and on in the sideboard. With 3 Burning Wish, that's 6. Now factor in that each can be used twice (Once flashed back I can wish for them again) so that's like 12 main deck discards. Then I have 6 slots for combo exclusivley in the sideboard, and against TES I can bring the Engineered Plagues in too. Too much discard makes this a green based control deck, when you need it to be a green based agro-control. Combo is really big, and I need to be preppedfor it. I just don't want to hurt the deck's chances against other matchups.

Saying you have 6 Discard spells main, because you're running 3 Burning Wish is rediculous. I do not play discard in my SB to be wished for, not only because it's using wish to get an underwhelming card (Which could be something like Persecute to actually... you know... win the match), but because it's bad. Spending 1BR to play Cabal Therapy isn't good.

You're not playing 12 Discard spells. You're playing 3 Cabal Therapy and 3 Burning wish. IMO, that's weak.

[Tacosnape]

You're not playing 12 Discard spells. You're playing 3 Cabal Therapy and 3 Burning wish. IMO, that's weak.

Technically he could carry his ridiculous mathematical argument on to ridiculous extremes by saying that since Cabal Therapy could theoretically hit more than 1 card per shot, he could be playing 24.

You're right. That's weak. And I don't care what your sideboard is, if you're relying on winning a match by having to win both games 2 and 3, your strategy is fraught with the possibility of mishap. Hundreds of things can go wrong in 2 games, especially against combo. TES and Iggy can combo out before you get a move. Solidarity can Remand your face off. GK Salvagers can Deed your Chalice/Pillar off the table and Duress away your tech. And of course, you can randomly just draw a crappy hand and mulligan into more crap.

The build with Duress, Therapy, and B. Wish -still- isn't favored against most combo decks, but it's a lot closer. It's a hell of a lot more feasible to snag that first game, and when backed up by Mesmeric Fiend the deck doesn't have a lot of trouble picking up one of the next two, and if it doesn't, it can sometimes pick up the 2nd and 3rd games anyway.

I also don't like the lack of a Chainer's Edict. Random Mystic Enforcers and moreso reanimated Megafacebeaters (Akroma, Triple S) are an unsolveable problem and cause a loss where a win might be extracted otherwise.

[troopatroop]

You pose a good point. Possibly dropping Loaming Shaman for Chainer's Edict?

[Di]

So it's disqualified for being good in only about 80% of your matchups, assuming a generous 20% Goblin Field?

No you can run it, it isn't the worst slot in the world, but generally I'm more worried about that 20% Goblin field moreso than the 80% non-Goblin field. Aside from combo decks, which aren't nearly as popular as Goblins, you really shouldn't be all that worried.

Regardless on how you look at it, the maindeck does need more discard. I believe 4 Cabal Therapy is absolute mandate in a Survival build, so I'd at least start with that. I'd also probably run Mesmeric Fiend over Duress maindeck, solely on the principle that it can attack, block, pitch to Survival, and hit a creature. Doing the turn 1 Duress, turn 2 Survival play isn't always the best way to play in a control matchup. You have a lot of time to win, so playing a turn 3 Survival is fine if you can play turn 1 and 2 discard.

You pose a good point. Possibly dropping Loaming Shaman for Chainer's Edict?

Loaming Shaman is probably a poor choice regardless. Do you honestly fear Threshold? I basically get all happy inside every time I sit across from it. Maybe if Loam or Reanimator or something became really popular it'd be justified, but seeing how they aren't current metagame concerns, I don't really see the reasoning behind running it.

[Tacosnape]

Loaming Shaman is probably a poor choice regardless. Do you honestly fear Threshold? I basically get all happy inside every time I sit across from it. Maybe if Loam or Reanimator or something became really popular it'd be justified, but seeing how they aren't current metagame concerns, I don't really see the reasoning behind running it.

I disagree. Loaming Shaman's my hero. He's not a mere silver bullet against Threshold. He also, as you said, hits any deck packing Loam (Which is an underrated deck), Landstill (Helps against Crucible and Nantuko Monestary), any deck packing any sort of recursion, any black control deck packing Chainer's Edict or Haunting Echoes, the Survival mirror, and tons of other random things you wouldn't ordinarily think of (The Wonder in U/G Madness, for example). Without Loaming Shaman, we're piloting a very toolboxish deck that doesn't have any sort of tool at all for graveyard hate.

In addition, if you're running the 4x Rootwalla configuration, Loaming Shaman allows you to repeat the process should you find all your Rootwallas in your graveyard. Loam them back in, Survival them back out, repeat.

As for the discard, Mesmeric Fiend main is an idea. I've been personally happy with Duress, as I like to be able to do something on my first turn when I don't have a turn one Bird and have no idea what I'm up against to name with Therapy. But Mesmeric would be a decent alternative.

[Di]

Without Loaming Shaman, we're piloting a very toolboxish deck that doesn't have any sort of tool at all for graveyard hate.

How is it "toolboxish?" The only real 'tools' Survival builds generally have these days are along the lines of Tin-Street Hooligan and maybe another 187 creature. If anything, adding Loaming Shaman makes the deck more "toolboxish" because it gives you another singleton slot that you tutor for. Also, if you're looking for graveyard hate, why aren't you just running Haunting Echoes? It's more expensive, but at least it's a win condition all on its own. It makes the lategame Burning Wish a lot stronger, seeing how you really don't have many viable targets. You have like..Regrowth, and that's about it. Everything else is pretty much narrow removal.

As for the discard, Mesmeric Fiend main is an idea. I've been personally happy with Duress, as I like to be able to do something on my first turn when I don't have a turn one Bird and have no idea what I'm up against to name with Therapy.

Generally you don't know what you're up against and have a potential turn 1 Cabal Therapy, you have two choices:

1. Wait until turn 2 to play it, hoping to gain an idea of what they're playing.

2. Name Goblin Lackey.

Personally, I actually prefer the second option because this deck can be crippled from a Goblin Lackey unlike any other card in the format. RGBSA suffers tremendously against Goblin Lackey because they lack a creature that can block it without being hit by Mogg Fanatic or Gempalm Incinerator, so that makes it all the more imperitive to be able to stop a Goblin Lackey at all costs. Even if you miss, you at least gain the information, but considering Lackey is the #1 worst turn 1 play for the deck (other than TES winning), I'd say it's worth the possible wiff to not deal with that issue.

[Tao]

This thread sucks. It is just Mulettus abusing the opening post to promote his inferior deck.

I think we should take a widely accepted version of this deck as an opening post and fortunately we have one list by Quicksilver that looks solid AND Top8ed in a big tourney. I suggest that this thread gets re-opened with the list below.

If possible it should be done by one the most experienced players with this deck like Quicksilver himself.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=5348

3rd Place
RGBSA
Dave Price (Quicksilver)

6 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Bayou
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Werebear
4 Burning Wish
4 Survival of the Fittest
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
4 Eternal Witness
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Flametongue Kavu
2 Ravenous Baloth
1 Anger
1 Genesis
1 Indrik Stomphowler

Sideboard
3 Mesmeric Fiend
1 Cabal Therapy
4 Engineered Plague
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Pyroclasm
1 Regrowth
1 Tsunmai
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Anarchy
1 Hull Breach

[Mulletus]

That's fine... have the mods move this to the newbie zone. I top 4'd in a field of the best talent I've seen in a long time. It was an initial run af the deck too. I have planty of respect for Dave and his builds. He may have expected more combo, or had a lot of faith that he would never see a turn one Lackey. I just don't know that a personal attack like that was necessary. I will continue to make changes and be as succesful as I have been, and care less about the haters. I remember hearing about one of my survival builds being posted on the source before I knew what the source was. I just think if the mods and admin thought I was abusing this section, or didnt know what I was talking about ... they would have moved or deleted this thread long ago.

[Di]

This thread sucks. It is just Mulettus abusing the opening post to promote his inferior deck.

I think we should take a widely accepted version of this deck as an opening post and fortunately we have one list by Quicksilver that looks solid AND Top8ed in a big tourney. I suggest that this thread gets re-opened with the list below.

Way to ruin this thread. Good job.

Note this thread was NOT intended to promote Mulletus's "inferior" deck. It was to continue the discussion on RGBSA. This is simply a continuation of that thread. If you don't believe Mulletus is qualified for that post, then you are dead wrong. Not only has he played the deck longer than Dave Price, but he's also put up just as many impressive results as him, though not as recent, including 30th place at GP Philly.

You make me laugh saying Dave Price is the more experienced player. Just because Mulletus's build isn't the exact norm does not mean it is necessarily a worse deck. The deck is fine, and the discussion will continue here.