[Deck] Eureka a.k.a. Answer_DOT_Deck

[Complete_Jank]

I wanted some response on this deck I am currently playing.

Eureka isn't what the deck is designed to do, it is counter draw or way to get around some things like Meddling Mage

First off, this deck is by no means easy to play. The play strategy depends on the oponent's deck, and the cards you have in your hand. There are weekness's in the deck, but there are many ways for it to win against different decks including High Tide.

It's worst match up is Rifter, thus the Stabilizer in the sideboard also it is the only non-wish target in the sideboard. It also has problems with Wasteland if it doesn't hit Saclands or forests.

The deck almost never sideboards, so your play will be consistent. You know what it can do, and can't do.

The Current Deck List
23 Creature Spells
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Wall of Roots
3 Goblin Welder
2 Eternal Witness
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Rofellos
1 Ravanous Baloth
1 Squee
1 Anger
1 Duplicant
1 Sundering Titan
1 Shield Sphere
1 Meddling Mage
2 Kokusho

19 Non-Creature Spells
4 Burning Wish
4 Survival
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Eureka
3 Enlighten Tutor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Lifeline
1 Seal of Clensing

18 Land
3 Wooded FootHills
2 Windswept Heath
4 Taiga
3 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Savannah
1 Tropical
3 Bayou


Sideboard
1 Eureka
1 Living Death
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Pyroclasim
1 Anarchy
1 Topple
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Reanimate
1 Washout
1 Hullbreach
1 Armagedon
1 Meltdown
1 Haunting Echoes
1 Stabilizer




This is the current list right now as far as I can remember off the top of my head.

About each card:
4 Birds of Paradise - Mana accel and all colors.
3 Wall of Roots - Mana Accel and blocker.
3 Goblin Welder - It is a Welder base deck, but only three because of space.
2 Eternal Witness - Getting back a needed spell like a survival, burning wish, or e even a land.
1 Quirion Ranger - Birds, Welders, & Rofellos work here. Also saves lands from your own titan.
1 Rofellos - Too powerful not to make the cut.
1 Ravanous Baloth - Against Burn he's great, and with Lifeline he is broken.
1 Squee - One to keep the SotF running.
1 Anger - Allows Welder, Rofellos, and any threat to be instant problem.
1 Duplicant - Good for answering against Reanimator as they usually grab Akroma.
1 Sundering Titan - Titan/Welder is a lock that usually only White can hope to recover from.
1 Shield Sphere - Zero casting cost artifact to allow quicker inplay of the survivaled artifacts.
1 Meddling Mage - Names StP, High Tide, Tendrils of Agony, or other problematic cards.
2 Kokusho - Combo pieces, also allows big threat if all else fails.
4 Burning Wish - Gets an answer, or a win condition.
4 Survival - Largest single threat in the deck.
3 Cabal Therapy - Good against Control & Combo
2 Eureka - Puts early threats in play, draws a counter spell, gets around mettling mage, and wins games.
3 Enlighten Tutor - Gets everything in the deck except a sorcery. (Creature, Enchant. or Art.)
1 Pithing Needle - One of that can be got by E. Tutor, also great 1st turn drop and 3rd turn welder target.
1 Lifeline - Combo piece, as well as blocker support, and life gain.
1 Seal of Clensing - E. Tutor gets it for humility and Pithing Needle.

18 Land: You run at least one of each green duel land because of wish targets, and 5 fetches so as to allow the need to get a certain land you would need, like a Savannah to play E. Tutor to get Survival for second turn drop, or grabbing a Taiga or Mountain for Anger effects. You run more Black in the deck than any other color except Green/Red so Bayou's are needed often, as Double black is often part of a casting cost.
3 Wooded FootHills
2 Windswept Heath
4 Taiga
3 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Savannah
1 Tropical
3 Bayou

Sideboard
1 Eureka - Same as the main deck.
1 Living Death - Survival into grave and then cast this for swing of board position.
1 Cabal Therapy - Needed often against control and combo. Actually people I know counter the burning wish if they are playing control or combo because they know I have this in my sideboard. #1 MVP of SB
1 Cranial Extraction - Can eliminate certain decks after Therapies
1 Pyroclasim - Saving grace against goblins
1 Anarchy - Believe me, this deck hates white.
1 Topple - Answer to Akroma or other Reanimator threats. Also removes Darksteel Fattie.
1 Chainer's Edict - Removes two, as it flashes.
1 Reanimate - Turn two Burning Wish then Reanimate Other player's Akroma is good, not to mention, I've also Reanimated my own Duplicant, Sundering Titan, Kokusho, and Welder. #3 MVP of SB
1 Washout - Good against White, Goblins, Multiple Mettling Mages, and Stompy.
1 Hullbreach - This card is so good, it can't be left out. It is a 2 for 1 in many cases. #2 MVP of SB
1 Armagedon - When you have 3 birds and a Ranger on turn 3 or 4 this is almost game over.
1 Haunting Echoes - This also wins games.
1 Stabilizer - Rifter is a huge problem.


The deck has run Niv-Mizzet & Curiosity in the past with Brainstorms and other changes, but the original deck was designed to pull off the Kokusho x2 Lifeline combo. Which can only be stopped by Humility, Stifle, Swords to Plowshares, or instant bounce.

Humility will keep your Kokushos in the grave with no benefit, but they will return at the end of turn only to die over and over.

Stifle will yield you a swing of 20 life(+10/-10) and one Kokusho in play at the end of turn, and the other in the grave.

Swords to Plowshares will yield a swing of 25 life(+15/-10) and one Kokusho in play at the end of turn, and the other removed from game.

Bounce will yield you a swing of 20 life(+10/-10) and one Kokusho in play at the end of turn, and the other in your hand.

I have tried running Reoccuring Nightmare, but it is too slow for my liking.


Thanks,
Mike

Please only constructive criticism.

[Finn]

Hey Mike. It's good talk to you about this. I am a Welder Survival kinda person. In fact, I began the first Legacy thread I know of anywhere right here a few years ago, and I STILL have a version built to this day. It is a fun, powerful engine, as I am sure you know.

Welder Survival is capable of countering so many strategies on its own, I am wondering why you decided to branch off. Considering that it made the deck into 5 colors (ouch), it appears to be a step backward.

This build has about a million things going on, and seems rather nebulous. In my build, I have a lot of backup plans for things like counterspells, Withered Wretch and Pithing Needles (the three biggest threats to the deck) to assure the one path to victory. You have very little of that. Instead you have other directions. How is this working for you?

[Complete_Jank]

Hey Mike. It's good talk to you about this. I am a Welder Survival kinda person. In fact, I began the first Legacy thread I know of anywhere right here a few years ago, and I STILL have a version built to this day. It is a fun, powerful engine, as I am sure you know.

Welder Survival is capable of countering so many strategies on its own, I am wondering why you decided to branch off. Considering that it made the deck into 5 colors (ouch), it appears to be a step backward.

This build has about a million things going on, and seems rather nebulous. In my build, I have a lot of backup plans for things like counterspells, Withered Wretch and Pithing Needles (the three biggest threats to the deck) to assure the one path to victory. You have very little of that. Instead you have other directions. How is this working for you?

This build takes top 4 at a weekly local tourney every time I play it. Tourney consists of 35-50 people.

I usually only loose to Solidarity if I get paired against it, but that isn't 100%, Titan lock early has won too many games.

There are quite a few different things going on in the deck, but that proves to be an advantage more often than a disadvantage. Opponents don't know what to name when they drop needle or mage.

Burning wish is just rediculous. You can reanimated Reanimator's creatures on turn two with a bird, and I have taken thier creatures from them. They have no answer to Akroma, lol. Also, Topple is your wish answer to Akroma, or the Duplicant main. Burning wish answers almost any problem.

Enlighten Tutor is about the second best card in the deck next to Burning wish, as it gets Survival, An artifact creature, Pithing Needle, Seal of Clensing, or Lifeline if you are going off, or just need reoccuring blockers.

I will admit that the 2 Kokushos and Lifeline could be removed for something better, however, I like the combo, and Lifeline has proven itself on more than one occasion with blockers and or Baloth.

[Complete_Jank]

Additional info.

I set out when Kokusho was printed to build a deck with Eureka and Lifeline to win with it.

I played Workshop Combo up untill it was banned, so I really liked Welder.

Survival was one card that I knew would make it possible to get my Kokushos in hand, and I had played other survival builds during play testing.

I like the 5 color, it keeps people on their toes, and allows me to utilize all options, but in all reality it is just a green based deck with side colors.

I have a Survival Welder deck constructed that is aimed at going off and just winning, and I am play testing that.

[Finn]

In that case, you may want to see this. Between Parcher and myself you get a lot of good discussion on strategy and card choice.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=42561

Btw, there are weekly Legacy tournaments somewhere on planet Earth that get 35-50 people?????

[Bane of the Living]

I honestly dont see how adding 2 more colors to an already good deck makes it more consistant or stronger. Welder Survival works so much better when you play with card draw, 4 Brainstorm, 4 Thirst for Knowledge. Huge in your games. I dont see how Burning Wish is worth bastardizing your sideboard when you have Intuition to be played in the deck. As a 3 mana instant speed tutor that sets up for welder tricks, its so much better than your sorc speed wish. Seriously dude. Burning Wish is slower than a main phase king cheeta.

The whole Eureka thing really just needs to go. Why would you ever want to play with that card? Goblin Welder is a million times better at cheating things into play. Lifeline//Kokusho is just as stupid. You need to decide between Welder Survival or Recurring Nightmare Survival.

The biggest strength the deck has is recurring Titans. You havent arranged a manabase for this in anyway. Where is City of Brass? Where is Tree of Tales?

Its nice to see Welder Survival pop up again, but this build looks like it needs alot more focus. And theres no fucking way your making top 4 weekly at 35-50 player tournies with this. Ive never heard of anything like that.

BTW try Nullstone Gargoyle and Platinum Angel out. Neither should ever be excluded. Angel + Sylvian Safekeeper = gg.

[Pinder]

Btw, there are weekly Legacy tournaments somewhere on planet Earth that get 35-50 people?????

Yeah, I run one (well, me, Durahan, and Klaan run one) out of NW Washington that's about 40 people strong on average.

Wait, topic? What topic?

[Mad Bomber]

Yeah, I run one (well, me, Durahan, and Klaan run one) out of NW Washington that's about 40 people strong on average.

Wait, topic? What topic?

We also get a 30ish tournament on a weekly basis in San Diego

[Warmonger]

About stopping the combo... afaIk, Legend Rule is an state-based effect, so there is no way to answer it once Kokushos are in play. Opponnent can only response to casting one of them, what you're probably not going to do.

With Stifle things might go weird, but in fact is stops the 'combo', althought losing ten life is still powerful.

[Complete_Jank]

About stopping the combo... afaIk, Legend Rule is an state-based effect, so there is no way to answer it once Kokushos are in play. Opponnent can only response to casting one of them, what you're probably not going to do.

With Stifle things might go weird, but in fact is stops the 'combo', althought losing ten life is still powerful.

Even Kokushos by themselves with Eureka is a swing of 20 life. Like I said, I built the deck for fun around that combo, and I think I'll make a straight Survival/Welder deck, I have one that combo's out and can go infinite.

Let me address one thing.

The fact that a deck can go infinite is something that will make it better than a deck that can't. The chance that you can go off means you can answer to stupid things like life.

[Bane of the Living]

Not too be a punk ass but I dont need to go infinite with Platinum Angel in play. I was really just picking on your combination of 2 decks. You just need to go one direction or the other. Welder Survival is an amazingly powerfull deck when piloted well, and Eureka Kokusho sounds neat, but to pull that off I think you need a deck more developed on it.

[Complete_Jank]

Not too be a punk ass but I dont need to go infinite with Platinum Angel in play. I was really just picking on your combination of 2 decks. You just need to go one direction or the other. Welder Survival is an amazingly powerfull deck when piloted well, and Eureka Kokusho sounds neat, but to pull that off I think you need a deck more developed on it.

Platinum Angel is great while in play, but it isn't that strong. The fact that it is an artifact creature means it is the easiest removed target in the format. In the straight Welder/Survival, I do have one in the main, so it can't just be written off.

Platinum Angel isn't great when you can deal infinite damage to everything, including the Angel.

Lifeline with Baloth is pretty good as well. 8 life gained for every one of your turns.

[Artowis]

What makes this better than The Skull? You know, the Eureka deck that could goldfish turn 3/4 or make a gigantic army full of smash-faces on turn 2?

[Complete_Jank]

What makes this better than The Skull? You know, the Eureka deck that could goldfish turn 3/4 or make a gigantic army full of smash-faces on turn 2?

I'm not familure with that deck, do you have a deck list, or link to it?

[iOWN]

I'm not familure with that deck, do you have a deck list, or link to it?

Use the Search Function.

The Skull

[Complete_Jank]

Use the Search Function.

The Skull

That deck is pretty inferior to this one for many reasons.

One, no search. The enlighten tutor would help get both Sneak Attack and the Darksteel Colossus.

Two, remove one Eureka and put it into the board, then also add Burning wish, you then have 7 Eurekas and answers.

Mettling Mage and Pithing needle stop almost the entire deck with no answer.

The deck looks like it can go off quite well, but disruption looks like it will mess it up pretty well, not to mention there is not much disruption in the deck either.

When you cast Eureka, you want to insure victory. What happens if Humility drops off a Eureka? I almost never play Eureka against white.

At least run black for Cabal Therapy.

[Artowis]

That deck is pretty inferior to this one for many reasons.

One, no search. The enlighten tutor would help get both Sneak Attack and the Darksteel Colossus.

Two, remove one Eureka and put it into the board, then also add Burning wish, you then have 7 Eurekas and answers.

Mettling Mage and Pithing needle stop almost the entire deck with no answer.

The deck looks like it can go off quite well, but disruption looks like it will mess it up pretty well, not to mention there is not much disruption in the deck either.

When you cast Eureka, you want to insure victory. What happens if Humility drops off a Eureka? I almost never play Eureka against white.

At least run black for Cabal Therapy.

Didn't read past the first post much?

1. The deck runs E. Tutor; and Sneak sort of alleviates the problem of not drawing Eureka.

2. Meddling Mage names Eureka or Sneak, not both. Pithing Needle does jack and I'd love for them to bring it in. I'm mildly amused that you think shutting down SOTF in the deck should actually hurt it that much. Maybe your version, because you seem so reliant on it to get ANYTHING going, but not the ones in that thread.

3. What happens if Humility drops off Eureka? You fucked up. :/

4. Therapy is ass here. At least if you're going to randomly run a black discard spell, pick the one that doesn't require the creature sacrifice to be just as good. Somehow I doubt that the flashback is mattering a ton with only 13 early game creatures for you to use. Most of which are better if they stay alive.

In all seriousness, the Eureka deck you put up is a Burning Wish Survival deck that pretends it can combo off on occasion, but really has all the weaknesses of Survival decks and instead of redunancy, runs a weak 'trump' in Eureka. You barely abuse it, so why bother running it? So if you happen to have active SOTF and 6 mana you can Wish into some sort of Eureka win. Wow. Seems slightly flawed.

[Complete_Jank]

Didn't read past the first post much?

1. The deck runs E. Tutor; and Sneak sort of alleviates the problem of not drawing Eureka.

2. Meddling Mage names Eureka or Sneak, not both. Pithing Needle does jack and I'd love for them to bring it in. I'm mildly amused that you think shutting down SOTF in the deck should actually hurt it that much. Maybe your version, because you seem so reliant on it to get ANYTHING going, but not the ones in that thread.

3. What happens if Humility drops off Eureka? You fucked up. :/

4. Therapy is ass here. At least if you're going to randomly run a black discard spell, pick the one that doesn't require the creature sacrifice to be just as good. Somehow I doubt that the flashback is mattering a ton with only 13 early game creatures for you to use. Most of which are better if they stay alive.

In all seriousness, the Eureka deck you put up is a Burning Wish Survival deck that pretends it can combo off on occasion, but really has all the weaknesses of Survival decks and instead of redunancy, runs a weak 'trump' in Eureka. You barely abuse it, so why bother running it? So if you happen to have active SOTF and 6 mana you can Wish into some sort of Eureka win. Wow. Seems slightly flawed.

I read past the first post, however when I post a deck and it gets changed in the thread I'll update the first post.

1. Refer to what I just said, it really should be in that deck.

2. Mettling Mage x 2 or Mettling Mage + Pithing Needle is game, unless you plan on hard casting all those creatures. Pithing Needle names Sneak Attack, and I think that is pretty good, so Pithing Needle means they only have to stop Eureka.

3. That is why you have Cabal therapy. One Cabal will cast twice for the problems you need to deal with. Humility then Sowrds to Plowshares, Tanglewire then Smokestack/Duplicant, Force of Will then another counter, Tradewind Rider or other bounce. It is also useful if you play against Solidarity. It allows to strip items on turn one.

Heck, I've Cabaled myself when I got needled by reanimator to get duplicant in my grave then burning wished for reanimate to remove his Akroma

4. Therapy is more of a problem then you give it credit. The fact that I can cast it twice if the first gets countered to still name Swords to Plowshares against Threshold is amazing, or to name both Swords and then flash for the Humility against Monowhite means thank God I could cast it twice. I only care about removing certain cards, and Duress would only hit one Swords if they had multiples. Also, you can reanimate a Kokusho then sacrifice it to cast a Cabal Therapy in your grave to have your opponent lose 5 life, because you never pass priority Your opponent can't do anything.


All in all, My deck isn't designed to only win by Eureka, but against Certain decks Eureka is an advantage. Control decks have to counter it because the chance of a threat they can't deal with hitting the board is too risky, let alone multiple threats that normally are easy to deal with in consecutive turns, now becomes a problem because they may have less answers than there are threats.


When I play this deck in tourney, I usually only cast Eureka with Kokusho, Kokusho, Lifeline once in a 5 round tourney, if at all, but it has won me games that I wouldn't have been able to win, because Kokusho doesn't target, and it is life loss, not damage.


The deck has a chance against any deck, unlike some decks in the format, that roll over to certain other decks.

[Cavius The Great]

3. What happens if Humility drops off Eureka? You fucked up. :/

That's why I think Seal of Cleansing should atleast be run in the SB in any Eureka deck for that very reason. But Rifter seems like it's becoming less and less popular so it really shouldn't be an issue.

[Complete_Jank]

That's why I think Seal of Cleansing should atleast be run in the SB in any Eureka deck for that very reason. But Rifter seems like it's becoming less and less popular so it really shouldn't be an issue.

I run one Seal of Clensing main, with Enlighten Tutors for removal of Humility and Pithing Needle.

Enlighten Tutor gets a needed item or answer in the deck, while Burning Wish gets an a needed spell or answer outside of the deck.

Also, you are very right about rifter being a problem, it is actually one of the worst match-ups, thus the solo Stabilizer in the SB, and with welders it usually stays.