[Deck] It's the Fear - Control in the new Era

[Rood]

Right, StP is the best removal spell in the format hands down. I just like playing so many basics it's really nice to not have to care so much about Wastelands and Blood Moon as much. K-Grip is reasonable you could probally go -2 +2 Counterspell I suppose it would be more solid depending on your metagame, mine is a shitload of Dreadstill so that's why I am suggesting this. And chances are you will live long enough against Ichorid to drop a Prop, It's not just there for that MU though as it's versatile against quite a few decks.

[nitewolf9]

Another thing about the swordsless build: you pretty much lose to a resolved tombstalker. I think that's pretty relevant.

[Hana, The Deadly Flower]

in my ITF build, I run no white. Instead of StP, I run smother to deal with goyf. I'm thinking about putting 1 crypt since we can intuition for it along with lftl and academy ruins.

[landstill101]

// Lands
4 [B] Tropical Island
2 [B] Underground Sea
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [CHK] Forest (2)
1 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold
5 [ARE] Island (8)
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ON] Flooded Strand

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
1 [FD] Eternal Witness

// Spells
2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
3 [AP] Pernicious Deed
2 [IA] Counterspell
4 [BD] Brainstorm
4 [CS] Counterbalance
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [TE] Intuition
1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [FD] Vedalken Shackles

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [AP] Pernicious Deed
SB: 4 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [TE] Propaganda

A swordsless build with a much more solid mana base. I also really like K-grips in the main in this deck, they hit so many great cards and are really a beating preboard people will not expect them. Propaganda from the board tends to make Goblins and Ichorid fairly stronger MUs.

What does your meta look like because your land base is soo horrid that it will lose to most threshold decks, and eva green decks, most goblins that still play port and really any deck that has mana denial. By taking out a color and adding 5 islands, you have actually made your board worse. A normal deck that runs wasteland can only run 4, if you can't get past a wasteland or 2 then you need to learn to play around it. Most of the mana bases had only 2 true weakness.....bloodmoon and getting all 4 colors(which if done right can be played around) but your manabase has 4 weaknesses. First of all 1 rashidan port keeps you from playing deed instantly with only 2 seas. And now that we are on it, you have made 1 wasteland a game winner against goblins, because since you can't play deed, you will never be able to stop them. When I look at this mana base, it just makes me wanna screen CHOKE, choke will instantly ruin you, with the little amount black to keep you from playing deed and the ability to keep you from actually accessing all 3 colors at one time, you chances of using explosives went right out the door. Your deck is just as vunerable to blood moon as every other ITF build, where in you deck will basic islands win you the game, you still need green to kill him(don't comment that you will have BEB after sideboard, because they have just as much of a chance to draw REB as you can to draw BEB so that plan is worthless). Lastly you have added soooo many fetchlands, that you have made stifle an easy better wasteland for any threshold deck and will ultimatly kill you against any deck that has mana denial because you will run out of lands in your deck to fetch with.


And now to the release of white...By taking out white you have officially worsened 2 matchups(more than that but I only need to talk about 2 to make it notible) goblins is the first in which you have pretty much made it a flip of the coin if you will win or not becuase if you don'tgo first, you have officially let a first turn lacky get through and kick you ass.(propaganda is not that great against goblins because they just keep you from ever getting black, drop a siege gang and then fling them at you for the kill.) The goblin players jump up and down to see white leave this deck.

The other matchup is threshold, the threshold player will walk all over you because now fledgling and enforcer now just beat your face because as someone has said, smother is worthless. And also you will not be able to beat the new red threshold decks that has the swans combo because you don't have a single thing in the deck that can stop it.

I don't like Deeper's version of this deck, but atleast his build has experience and thought put into it, yours has lame reasons because your afraid of bloodmoon.


Ichorid will kill you before you can play proganda and if not they just bring back akroma which because you took out swords you can not stop. Your list will lose to ichorid all day.

[Deep6er]

I have a question for all the people touting Fact or Fiction in this deck. What matchups do you think that card will really improve? Threshold? What-the-fuck-ever. Goblins? No way in hell. Control? Big deal. If I'm finding a one-of, it's a higher likelihood that I'm doing that with Intuition which should mean good things for me anyway. Also, if I'm finding it with an Intuition against a control deck, seems to me that it would be better finding other engines.

I don't really see this card improving any matchups. I'm thinking that it would be better if that card just remained a flex slot for the use in adding in bullets for expected metagames. While I'll grant you that the Tormod's Crypt had been bad, that doesn't show what would have happened had I predicted it correctly.

Also, other cards that I've been thinking about for that slot are as follows:

Decree of Pain
Mystical Teachings (Intuition/Swords number 5 + Card Advantage)
Nivenyrral's Disk
Seize the Soul (yes Dan, I'm actually considering it)
Damnation/Wrath of God

Basically, I think the slot should be flexible. Those cards are all very good at their intended purposes, and those purposes happen to (in most scenarios) also gain you Card Advantage.

I just think that Fact or Fiction isn't going to help matchups. Decree is decent against Landstill and occasionally Goblins. Mystical Teachings is a decent all around card that can help find whatever you need. Disk is good against Dragon Stompy. Seize the Soul is good against aggro decks. As is Wrath/Damnation (although Seize the Soul's creature generation/instant speed is really useful too).

I'd like to hear some arguments about why Fact or Fiction would be good in this deck. That way I can get a better picture of the reasoning behind it. If the argument is purely, "drawing cards is good" there are cards that would be better suited in that slot. Meditate for one. I want to see if there's anything else that makes other people say Fact or Fiction would be good in this deck.

[Happy Gilmore]

I don't see how you can justify playing both FoF and Intuition in this deck. I would think that while your playing 4 mana draw spells some Big ass mofo is kicking your face in with a sledge hammer. Does that sound fun to everyone? Don't be a fool, Say no to FoF.

Dave, why no Shriekmaw in that list of cards to include?

[Deep6er]

Simple. Shriekmaw costs too much for too little. Also, the sorcery speed thing is a beating. In general, I don't think he's good enough.

[nitewolf9]

Actually, shriekmaw could be good as a 1 of in that slot. He is only to ice a dude against an aggro deck and seems pretty good with stronghold. I don't think he should be dismissed that quickly.

[Deep6er]

I think that I'd rather have something "bomb-ier" in that slot. The only matchup that Shriekmaw might improve is the aggro match. Honestly, there are better options. Plus, I don't like the fact that he's (mostly) dead against Control. Disk has other applications for that matchup and Decree cycles. Even Seize the Soul's instant speed ability would be relevant because it can kill a Factory. Wrath and Damnation would be bad in a Control matchup, but there more devastating against the aggro matches.

Again, in general, I don't think Shriekmaw is good enough.

[nitewolf9]

The more I think of it the more I like disk. I think I want to test that out. Seems very powerful and it is recurrable through academy ruins alone.

[jazzykat]

I have tested haunting echoes a little. I think it's awesome, but does require some set up. I think I have found my bomboliciousness for the flex spot.

[Hana, The Deadly Flower]

How many lands do people run in a 4 color build?

[Deep6er]

I'm running 22 right now. Theoretically, you turn the flex spot in my list into a 23rd land. I'm pretty happy with 22, and some with 23, but I think going beyond that number is a mistake. I also think that going below 20 lands is a mistake.

Also, you should really play white. Smother is nowhere near as good as Swords is, and the manabase isn't fragile. Seriously.

[Citrus-God]

Also, you should really play white. Smother is nowhere near as good as Swords is, and the manabase isn't fragile. Seriously.

You also run Loam to fix your mana base and you technically have 11 White sources off 8 fetchlands, 2 Tundras, and 1 Basic Plains. That's usually enough White sources to help answer a first turn or early game threat.

[Hana, The Deadly Flower]

I have the following blue cards in the deck:

4 counterspell (I tried running only FoW and there are many times where i wished I had a counter)
4 brainstorm
4 FoW
3 counterbalance (I dont think we need a 4th, it would suck to draw 2 of em)
3 intuition
Is a 4th counterbalance needed or just preference?

I've been testing "Spiritmonger" as my kill card and I don't know how I feel about it. It seems that any bombs that I put out other than Goyfs just says GG. I was also thinking about morphling since it is hard to kill and it goes well it our manabase.

I also added 1 Tormod's Crypt so that we can intuition+academy ruins against one of our iffy match ups "Ichorid"?

LMK what you guys think.

[Citrus-God]

I have the following blue cards in the deck:

4 counterspell (I tried running only FoW and there are many times where i wished I had a counter)
4 brainstorm
4 FoW
3 counterbalance (I dont think we need a 4th, it would suck to draw 2 of em)
3 intuition
Is a 4th counterbalance needed or just preference?

You need the 4th Intuition as well as the 4th Counterbalance. Also, who cares if you drew into a 2nd Counterbalance? Just be glad you played it.

I've been testing "Spiritmonger" as my kill card and I don't know how I feel about it. It seems that any bombs that I put out other than Goyfs just says GG. I was also thinking about morphling since it is hard to kill and it goes well it our manabase.

Morphling is probably better since it has evasion.

[Deep6er]

I highly recommend cutting the two extra Counterspells for the fourth Counterbalance and the fourth Intuition. Those cards are so much better than Counterspell.

Also, Spiritmonger and Morphling are unnecessary. Tarmogoyf is as good as it gets. Those guys cost too much for too little. Most games, you won't need for your creatures to have protection because most of your planning should be revolving around resolving a Counterbalance. Once that happens, your creatures are proof from most removal anyways, so why play worse creatures?

The one-of Tormod's Crypt is bad. After doing some preliminary testing, I found that Intuitioning for it is awful. Additionally, since you don't always know what you're playing, mulliganing for it is terrible. Honestly, that card fits better in the board. I'll be doing testing with Crypt later this week. Seriously though, you're going to have to give game 1 to Ichorid. You have like a 20% shot if you can stall their early game and beat face with Tarmogoyf, but I wouldn't really change anything in the maindeck unless I knew there was going to be a lot of Ichorid at a tournament.

[Hana, The Deadly Flower]

The only thing I really really fear is when the opponent extripates your Goyfs. I'll make my decklist later on. When I built this deck, "which I haven't tested yet" I have only 20 lands in the deck. Maybe I'll knock off the "1 Crypt" and just hope for the best against graveyard combo deck.

[Deep6er]

It's ridiculous to worry about someone Extirpating your Tarmogoyfs. You still have other win conditions like Shackles, and Witness. Even then, you can deck your opponent with Explosives and Academy Ruins. Plus, countering Extirpate with Counterbalance is easier than countering Krosan Grip.

Twenty lands is entirely too few. I highly recommend playing more lands. I'd direct you to my current list that has twenty-two lands and tell you to try that out if you'd like. Twenty-one is decent, twenty-two is solid, but twenty is entirely too few.

Honestly, don't worry about Ichorid. The deck is going to have to catch on in popularity before it becomes something that you should warp the maindeck for. Just board four Crypts, and hope for the best. It's a tough matchup, but you can't win all of them. No deck can (except Flash).

[Bardo]

It's a tough matchup, but you can't win all of them. No deck can (except Flash).

It always lost to the mirror.

Anyway, Dave, can you post your current list and what you think is the optimal build? What, in your experience, are your shittier match-ups? What would you like to face every round? What is your sideboard trying to accomplish?