[Deck] The Servant's Stone

[electrolyze]

i have a question about the combo,


is there already an optimal shell were it fits in or must deck the totally depends on the combo?

what i want to ask if there is already an optimal list for this combo?

im really like to know if there is already such thing because the combo looks very solid to me.

[Michael Keller]

Amusingly, the Painter's Servant can make a Mox that is already in play produce additional colors.

Actually, that's not true. Painter's Servant doesn't affect what Moxen tap for, but it does affect the color of the Mox itself. For example, if you select the color blue when Painter comes into play, your Chrome Mox is now blue in addition to being an artifact. That doesn't mean it can tap for blue mana even though you may have removed another color card from the game for Imprint.

Please take into consideration what you say before you say it here. There are a lot of newer players who do not understand the functionality of some cards and that can lead them to spending money or trading cards for ideas that simply do not work. Ask a judge if you are uncertain in the appropriate forum.

[goobafish]

Actually, that's not true. Painter's Servant doesn't affect what Moxen tap for, but it does affect the color of the Mox itself. For example, if you select the color blue when Painter comes into play, your Chrome Mox is now blue in addition to being an artifact. That doesn't mean it can tap for blue mana even though you may have removed another color card from the game for Imprint.

Please take into consideration what you say before you say it here. There are a lot of newer players who do not understand the functionality of some cards and that can lead them to spending money or trading cards for ideas that simply do not work. Ask a judge if you are uncertain in the appropriate forum.

I'm pretty sure he is talking about the card imprinted by Chrome Mox, once Painter is in play, it will produce 2 colors as long as the removed card isn't the same color as you name with the Painter.

[Michael Keller]

I'm pretty sure he is talking about the card imprinted by Chrome Mox, once Painter is in play, it will produce 2 colors as long as the removed card isn't the same color as you name with the Painter.

Only once the Painter is in play, yes.

[Cire]

I'll probably make a new thread for this deck since i think it had potential: this is what i have been working on for the past week in my spare time

Miró Control

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Dark Confidant
4 Painter’s Servant

4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Damnation
4 Thought Seize
3 Chrome Mox
3 Liliana Vess
2 Pyroblast
2 Duress
1 Grindstone

4 bloodstained mire
3 Ancient tomb
3 B/R dual
2 Swamp
2 City of traitors
2 Polluted Delta
1 Wooded Foot hills
1 Mountain
1 Plain
1 W/R dual
1 B/W dual

I shied away from blue and instead opted to play REB's and discard as a control suite, the deck without painter in play is still very good against any deck that runs blue. The duress and thought seizes take care of any non-blue threats until painter comes online. Against primarily red decks like goblins, your basically stalling with the discard effects and damnation until you can get the Painter into play to start winning. Also to win you have enlightened tutor and Liliana Vess to search out the grindstone. Also Liliana Vess is a useful control engine and win con by herself, not only that it can also act as a stall since the opponent will try to kill it first instead of you. Additionally with SSG/Chrome Mox and the 2 mana lands i have gotten a fair amount of turn 2/3 wins with a consistent turn 4/5 win. The deck itself needs more work but its a pretty good control deck with a clock almost as fast as an combo deck.

After i get more testing done with it I'll post this under a new topic but until then, any criticism would be helpful. Thank you.

[Isamaru]

I like the 6+ REB Painters varients. You could probably run 2 or more Grindstone.

You should play more Enlightened Tutor targets for sure, and maybe 1 Artifact land...

What happens if you take out Simian Spirit Guide and go up to 4 Chrome Mox. You could play Night's Whisper along with the Confidants...

[Cire]

Thanks for liking the list Isamaru: anyway to your Concerns:

1) Grindstone is the worst card in the deck, you only want to run 1, even running 2 you take away spots from your deck that could be used for other things. i would rather try to find room for STP rather than more grindstone

2) Enlightened tutor is only there to search out the combo, what other target would you need? the tutor already searches out for an instant win, what other target could be better?

3) SSG doesn't cost 2 cards to produce 1 mana while the mox does, even adding night's whisper wouldn't be enough draw to offset more Card disadvantage. Also Night's whisper would cost us life, on this deck that's already heavy on life with fetchlands, bobs and ancient tombs. Additionally the only thing you need mana for is to get out Liliana Vess or the combo, and trust me you have enough B sources to not worry about getting that BB by turn 3/4, and the combo is colorless so it doesn't really matter

[Isamaru]

Some targets include Sun and Moon Wheel or Runed Halo, but both are impossible to cast here.

So, consider including at least 1x Oblivion Ring as an Enlightened Tutor target...

Yes, Grindstone is crappy, but I don't like the idea of it getting countered or counterbalanced - or, since you of course have the REBs, destroyed by Vindicate or something silly - only to have you have to try to win with Dark Confidant beits.

Asímismo, me gusta eso nombre.

[Cire]

maybe some (around 2) Goblin Welders to protect the combo pieces? Or something else to get back any Grindstone that is destroyed, just anything would be better than putting in another grindstone.

Besides its harder to get rid of than you think. CB is easily taken care of, Vindicate with painter in play is counterable, plus you can play the stone and tap it before its destroyed. The only real threat is Krosan Grip.

[WiLdFiRe]

The only real threat is Krosan Grip.

Not if you play around it and just have 4 mana to play and activate it without passing priority.
EDIT: Nvm, obviously Grip hits Painter, my bad.

[Maveric78f]

Amusingly, the Painter's Servant can make a Mox that is already in play produce additional colors.

Actually, that's not true. Painter's Servant doesn't affect what Moxen tap for, but it does affect the color of the Mox itself. For example, if you select the color blue when Painter comes into play, your Chrome Mox is now blue in addition to being an artifact. That doesn't mean it can tap for blue mana even though you may have removed another color card from the game for Imprint.

Please take into consideration what you say before you say it here. There are a lot of newer players who do not understand the functionality of some cards and that can lead them to spending money or trading cards for ideas that simply do not work. Ask a judge if you are uncertain in the appropriate forum.

I'm pretty sure he is talking about the card imprinted by Chrome Mox, once Painter is in play, it will produce 2 colors as long as the removed card isn't the same color as you name with the Painter.

Only once the Painter is in play, yes.

I have rarely seen such a bad faith.

[Cire]

Some targets include Sun and Moon Wheel or Runed Halo, but both are impossible to cast here.

So, consider including at least 1x Oblivion Ring as an Enlightened Tutor target...

Yes, Grindstone is crappy, but I don't like the idea of it getting countered or counterbalanced - or, since you of course have the REBs, destroyed by Vindicate or something silly - only to have you have to try to win with Dark Confidant beits.

Asímismo, me gusta eso nombre.

The more i think about this problem the more i come to the conclusion that we need an alternate win instead of adding more Grindstone, but then i realize we're running L. Vess who, is a beast, combined with the control of Painter + REB you can easily make him discard card after card and then BOOM you win. Grindstone is of course an easier win, but if they manage to destroy it before you win with it, you still have outs.

The oblivion ring sounds like a good idea actually, or even moat for that matter. ill see if i can find a way to cut 1 or 2 cards? Maybe 2 damnation for a moat (both stall aggro, but moat can be tutored for)?

[Isamaru]

Yes, moat sounds good, or Ghostly Prison if you can't afford the WW.

Want to just go for a 3 color / full splash? Or, what does RW offer / what can we do without black.

[Cire]

I'm going for the full 3 colors, Black offers way too much to simply be forsaken. It offers discard, removal and a tutor and win con combined in L. Vess. if were not running blue we need the black for it's tutoring, draw power and disruption. Also on the subject of mana issues and red in general, it would be awesome to find room for Manamorphose in this deck for thinning and mana fixing.

The mana base need to be changed slightly to support the WW of moat, but i think the spell base of

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Dark Confidant
4 Painter’s Servant

4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Thought Seize
3 Chrome Mox
3 Liliana Vess
2 Moat
2 Damnation
2 Pyroblast
2 Duress
1 Grindstone

looks optimal for the moment, barring any more tech or manamorphose inclusions. Now outside working on the mana base we need to start building a good sideboard for this deck.

[Michael Keller]

I'm going for the full 3 colors, Black offers way too much to simply be forsaken. It offers discard, removal and a tutor and win con combined in L. Vess. if were not running blue we need the black for it's tutoring, draw power and disruption. Also on the subject of mana issues and red in general, it would be awesome to find room for Manamorphose in this deck for thinning and mana fixing.

The mana base need to be changed slightly to support the WW of moat, but i think the spell base of

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Dark Confidant
4 Painter’s Servant

4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Thought Seize
3 Chrome Mox
3 Liliana Vess
2 Moat
2 Damnation
2 Pyroblast
2 Duress
1 Grindstone

looks optimal for the moment, barring any more tech or manamorphose inclusions. Now outside working on the mana base we need to start building a good sideboard for this deck.

I think you'd need to test it before jumping right into a sideboard. Just because it looks good on paper doesn't mean it's optimal yet. Get some results.

[Cire]

Yeah i'm sorry i declared it optimal without testing it yet, i'll let you know how it does testing against the DTB's, but on the count of the SB i think it's an integral part of the deck design itself. even before testing decks i usually try to build a sb since i test in games of three (1 pre board and 2 post board). Just looking at the list i can tell it'll have trouble against decks with Krosan Grip, combo decks as fast and consistent as FT and most probably homebrew builds. But this is again all speculation and as i said by the end of the week i'll try to get enough testing done with this deck.

[Mr.C]

What about Transmute Artifact in a Stax shell? That way, you can control the game until you can transmute either part of the combo, and win.

Maybe that works better?

[georgjorge]

Well, Absolute Law should be played at least as a 1-of tutor target in the side (but I would opt for 3 slots), as every deck splashing for green runs Grips, and so far discard is your only out against that. As Law protects against not only Grips but EVERY targetted removal, it becomes MVP against non-blue decks that rely on that kind of removal. Probably also good against Goblins, either buying time until you can combo off or at least protecting from Gempalm (that you can't counter).

Also, you REALLY sure about Liliana ? It's powerful, but five mana can find you better tutoring power, and it's very slow as a win condition. If you can win with her, you'd probably win with whatever you would be tutoring up with, say, Beseech the Queen or something similar as well...

Also, what are the Spirit Guides for ? If for acceleration, they seem to be inferior to LED, which can enable second to third turn kills. They can't accelerate into Wraths, but I'm not sure where you'd need that except Goblins...

Finally, I'm not sure how often you play control, and how often you go for a fast combo...but if the latter is common, additional tutoring in Tainted Pact or Spoils of the Vault (not as risky as it appears) could be played.

[Moczoc]

Two card combos suck in a foreign shell when the pieces alone are quite bad cards in the deck. The most obvious thing would be a Mono-U-straight-towards-combo version. So here is my first list:

Combo
4 Painter's Servant
4 Grindstone

Search
4 Fabricate
4 Transmute Artifact
4 Reshape

Protection
4 Pact of Negation
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

Other
1 Engineered Explosives (destroys Needle)
2 Jeweled Amulet (stores mana, can be sacced for tutors)

Lands
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
8 Island
4 Seat of the Synod

I just played a few goldfishgames

win turn 4 (backed up by 2 counters)
win turn 4 (backed up by 0 counters)
win turn 6 (backed up by 1 counters)
win turn 10 (backed up by 5 counters)
win turn 4 (backed up by 0 counters)
win turn 5 (backed up by 3 counters)

So the deck isn't quite fast yet, but most times you can be sure to force-through the win. Interesting: I never had to mulligan.

[Cavius The Great]

How has Pact of Negation been treating you? From my experience, it's a rather bad card.