U/R/b KFC
Kentucky Fried
Lands (21)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Volcanic Island
3 Badlands
1 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
Creatures (4)
4 Swan of Bryn Argoll
Spells (34)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lim-Dul's Vault
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
4 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
4 Chain of Plasma
1 Conflagrate
I chose to go with Conflagrate MD because very few decks actually pack gy hate MD... and you can always bring in Lightning Storm from the SB if needed. I just don't think wasting an additional slot MD for another win condition is worth it. However, MD Lightning Storm could possibly be better than MD Conflagrate... I have no clue.
So... why the black splash? I feel that black lends alot of strength to the deck. Maindeck, the 8 discard spells in addition to the CounterTop and FoW package is just extremely strong. Not only that, Lim-Dul's Vault is amazing... not only is it capable of digging for both Swan and/or CoP, it also works extremely well with an active Counterbalance (and, of course, it pitches to FoW).
I don't think the deck really needs to pack burn outside of CoP... there's not very much it is going to do as removal in this Goyf heavy meta and the deck doesn't need to use it as reach either. The only time I see it as valuable is after you drop Swan, where I do admit it is extremely strong. However, I doubt I'd be dropping Swan until I had access to CoP anyway.
I also don't like the Chrome Mox + SSG idea. I suppose that if I wanted to race the opponent, those could quicken the goldfish. However, I prefer the slower controllish route where I'm just controlling the stack the whole time until I'm able to go off. Most of the time, I'd drop Swan and pass the turn and then cast Chain + Conflagrate on the following turn. The heavy discard lets me know when I can and can't drop Swan while CounterTop allows me to drop Swan and keep it protected regardless.
I'm still debating about whether or not I want to fit in MD creature removal or not (like Shriekmaw, Damnation, etc).
As far as the sideboard goes, I have no clue. Cards like Extirpate and Dark Confidant sound like good candidates, while Tombstalker and Damnation seem like interesting options vs aggro/control. Shattering Spree, bounce, etc all sound good as well.
Last edited by Hanni; 04-01-2008 at 02:30 AM.
I am liking the aggro idea. As far as Conflagrate goes, a very good idea, but it opens the deck up to grave hate now. I think 2x Lightning Storm, 1x Seismic Assault should be all that is really necessary. Chalice of the Void seems very solid, drop Chalice at 1 and no more StP. I like Dilettante's deck idea without the Magus of the Moons. And Sunforger to search out Chain of Plasma, that is a really good idea. G/W/r Chalice aggro shell would probably work best.
Real men use Mind over Matter plus Flame Fusillade.
If you're going the combo route, why not add Pact of Negation? Having 8 Force of Wills is never a bad thing, especially if you need to play around StP in response to Chain Lightning.
EDIT: Interesting list, Hanni, but how do you race Goyf? It seems like you lose if you can't get the combo fired off within the first few turns. Also, it gives your opponent time to build counter concentration while recovering from your discard. Actually, come to think of it, you lose if you can't stick a Swan and a Chain or the Counter-Top combo, which is difficult for you to do given that you're under pressure from a 3/4 or 4/5. Even if you resolve Counter-Top first and then try to resolve the Chain combo, you need to win that turn or the turn after because Threshold can just beat instead of playing spells. Also, what happens if they get Counter-Top first? It seems like the strongest plan when facing you is to race for the turn two CB with counter backup and then drop a Goyf or a Goose to smash face, because you're not going off earlier than turn five, probably later if they Stifle a fetchland or Wasteland something. Force as your only counter that can be played early is a bad idea, because Thresh simply has too many Unpleasant Things for you to deal with in the first few turns: Tarmogoyf, Goose, burn/Blood Moon/StP/opposing counters.
If Swan is your only creature another tutor could be Guided Passage. And (if already green) Worldly Tutor.
I fail to see why people are going for a straight-up single-plan combo deck with this thing. In this regard, it's no better than Mizzium/Vault, which is immune to StP and more easily tutorable/recurrable, not to mention infinite turns >>>> infinite cards since you don't need to cram free mana sources in the deck to fuel your win condition.
The beauty of Swan/Chain is that neither piece is dead on its own. Chain is a decent burn spell: you creatures are all immune to a single Bolt, so if you're going to get it chucked back at you it's by aggro decks who head for the dome, and Goblins won't even do that since they probably don't want to give you an improved Snuff Out (plus you're Red Thresh so you should pummel Goblins anyway, at least postboard). Swan is a very efficient evasive creature that turns your other burn spells (if you choose to run them) into Ancestral Recalls. Even the win condition can be a sometime-useful burn spell (Lightning Storm more so than Conflagrate), making this a very rare 2/6/0 combo.
So, what about we just take an UGR Counterbalance Thresh list, and fit the combo into it? Let's not even waste space for free mana: you're going to drop Swans on turn 4 at the earliest, so it's highly likely you'll have three open mana for Lightning Storm when you play the Chains. Since Swans is also an unkillable blocker, although with a drawback, waiting a turn is unlikely to cost you against aggro decks. Against control decks, where you need to plan for sweepers, the other plan (I wouldn't call it just a plan B) of "Red Thresh with 8 Bolts" is probably better; you can also just play the combo on your sixth land drop and pass the turn while holding enough Bolts to burn off your opponent.
Of course, none of the above are absolute statements, but I'd still say that the times where waiting a turn before the combo costs you the game will be rare enough to not warrant running shit like Lotus Petals.
17 lands
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Swans of Bryn Argoll
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain of Plasma
3 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Lightning Storm
EDIT: Know what? I'm making a new thread for this approach. Let's leave this one for the straight-up combo versions.
Last edited by Nihil Credo; 04-01-2008 at 10:54 AM.
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
This is actually pretty close to what I was thinking of. I.E. putting it in a Stompy shell w/ 2 mana-lands and Moxen. I would've done it slightly different though. Here's a proposed list off the top of my head:Originally Posted by Dilettante
4 Swan
3 Windborn Muse
4 Exalted Angel
4 Aven Mindcensor
3 Moat
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Orim's Chant
2 Abeyance
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Chain of Plasma
1 Conflagerate
1 Lightning Storm
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
3 Plateau
2 Plains
SB: Uhh... Probably the last 2 Abeyance. Maybe Abolish? I don't know here.
That list is pretty much just Phantom's Gargangel Stompy splashing red for the combo. 6 Chants for protection. A full 8 out of the board. And even if you end up not comboing and going aggro, the chants are far from dead cards (Upkeep, chant you with kicker, next turn swing FTW...).
Putting Plasma Swans into Gargangel Stompy is pretty damn awful.
For one, the deck has basically no draw. Now, this wouldn't be a problem if both pieces of the combo worked on their own, but unfortunately Chain of Plasma is terrible here since it can kill 50% of your creatures on the rebound; more if you consider morphed Angel. Not to mention Moat means that the opponent is likely to have a lot of dead cards to pitch.
Moreover, running Chants for protection forces you to drop Chalice, which is overall the better card. It also means that, against any deck running countermagic or StP (I'm guessing a big chunk of the field), you now have a three-card combo to draw into. Good luck.
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
Point taken. For some reason it didn't really occur to me that your hand wouldn't always contain the combo... Please continue with your regularly scheduled suggestions of good decks.
You know, normally I dislike combo decks, but I actually am very interested in this one...I may just have to pick it up. It seems to have something about it that other combo decks don't have.
"Oho! I have deluded you! For I am a clever trickster, and this is not actually the truth!"
-Doug Beyer
Im gonna echo Nihil here about the combo in gargangel stompy. You cant find either piece consistently and both pieces are very bad here on there own. Chain of plasma kills all of your creatures and Swan is a 4/3 for 4 with a considerable drawback because in a W Tomb/chalice aggro deck it cant reactively protect the creature like in UR/URX versions.
Call me Ishmael
I cut Mindcensor from the R/W Aggro because it makes Sunforger useless... It's like a Rakdos Pit-Dragon and SoFI. Two great tastes that blend together like chocolate ice cream and hot sausage pizza.
Yeah, I guess Magus of the Moon can be relegated to sideboard and can potentially be something else board-affecting. Maybe even Stonecloaker.
Possible SB could be
4x Magus of the Moon
3x Tormod's Crypt
4x Orim's Chant
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Pyroblast
I'm a little surprised that nobody's suggested a straight burn-out finish -- something like:
4xSSG
4xChrome Mox
4xLotus Petal
4xChain Lightning
4xLightning Bolt
4xFlame Strike
4xChain of Plasma
4x Swans of Bryn Argoll
4x Slithermuse
4x Browbeat
4x Volcanic Island
4x Steam Vents
2x Mountain
2x Island
8x Fetch
Last edited by rufus; 04-01-2008 at 11:08 AM. Reason: Erroneosly had "tropical" instead of "volcanic"
I was goldfishing, and you really don't need that much burn. Lightning Bolts complemented by Conflagrate or hasty flying creatures (Swans, and perhaps large but grounded--or Wonder-ful--'Goyfs) does the job without trouble, and allows you to dedicate a number of slots to combo-protection.
I think you mean volcanic
What damn is Flame Strike ?
What about gamekeeper? You can CoP it and copy the CoP on the next gamekeeper or on the chicken if you're more lucky.
Hot or Not ? (swan => chicken => chick)
Combo: 14
4*Gamekeeper
4*Swan
4*CoP
1*Conflagerate
1*Lightning Storm
Additionnal Burn: 8
4*Lightning Bolt
4*Fire/Ice or Pyroclasm
Settlement: 8
4*Brainstorm
4*Serum Visions
Protection: 10
4*FoW
3*Misdirection
3*Blue Shoal
20 lands
I like my list. Maybe 1 bounce is needed against a random CoP (circle of protection this time...).
Well I did not mean to put a final point to this thread. (strange, 3 pages in a few hours and nothing since my post...)
A small explanation about how it works with game keeper:
1/ Play CoV on gamekeeper
2/ gamekeeper is dealt 3 damages
3/ discard 1 card and copy it on myself
4/ gamekeeper is put into the yard as a SBE
5/ Trigger of gamekeeper on stack
6/ Trigger of gamekeeper resolves and finds either GK or Swan
7/ Resolution of the CoP copy. I am dealt 3 damages
8/ if GK has been revealed, go to 3/, otherwise it's swan and you can combo
Remarks of the list :
4*gamekeeper is maybe 1 or 2 too much. It may provoke some fizzles (if you reveal all your keepers before the swans)
Blue shoal is probably bad. I did not notice that the removed card had to be blue. Maybe Pact of negation in its place.
Lightning storm enables to combo in a graveyard hate environment
The idea is that once Swan is in play, you can draw a lot that with your burn spells and probably dig enough to find CoP, so that you don't need any tutor for it.
The game keeper is certainly a good way to get to the swan. It does add a color since the deck is now U or W (Swan), R (Chain of Plasma) and G (Game Keeper).
You could always play one game keeper with a couple of Summoner's Pacts. You can then also run Mystical Tutor to fetch Summoner's Pact/Chain of Plasma as a combo enabler and utility tutor.
I also wonder whether Chain lightning is superior to Lightning Bolt in swan combo decks.
There are plenty of ways for a deck like this to finish, the issue is really how to make the combo finish be resilient (although, since the original combo is already vulnerable to counters, that's relatively minor) and fit with the rest of the deck.
P.S. I meant to write Fireblast.
Fixed. You've just discarded a card, burnt your only creature to death and bolted yourself. I don't like this plan.
Team SPOD[23:08:50] <@Anusien> You want me to actually test?
[23:09:02] <frogboy> I thought you already had
That's not the main plan. It's just a synergic way to fetch Swan. If you smell the stifle, don't accelerate the combo. The STPs/counterspells spent on keepers are not spent on a swan, and stifle included decks are rarely aggro decks that fly over game keeper so that you can sit behind keeper the time to find a better hand. Then end of opponent turn brainstorm putting swan on top of library. Then bolt of keeper. If stifled it's 1 bolt for 1 stifle nothing awful and you can play swan behind (or another copy of keeper).
I don't sea how to play summoner's pact as I need 9 mana from that moment to kill within my turn.
You may just have to stick with FoW.
"Oho! I have deluded you! For I am a clever trickster, and this is not actually the truth!"
-Doug Beyer
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