Garruk is an alternate win condition, similar to how some builds run Tarmogoyf, Decree of Justice, or Eternal Dragon. In exchange for being cheap and self recurring, it's more difficult to remove and has more utility.Try adding random creatures until you can see it.Originally Posted by kicks_422
This is to tacosnape and others in regards to garruck. Since your testing of garruck have you come across the problem with you making a 3/3 them axing it and then just killing garruck?
Im just curious because that seems like what thresh would do to it. 4 FOF seems excessive for a legacy build taco. I would drop atleast one for LFTL. One random grip in the mainboard?
I should clarify, first, that the 4 Fact or Fiction is strictly a metagame call and not one I'm a huge proponent of ordinarily. I am in a very control-heavy metagame, and it's crucial I be able to win the card advantage war. I haven't actually played Landstill in a tournament in several weeks due to the crappy metagame for it, though.
As for the Garruk/Token thing, this doesn't happen often like I thought it would, mostly because it's incredibly easy to predict when this is going to happen, and you simply don't drop Garruk if this is the case. If an opponent's sitting there with a Goyf or a Mongoose or a Confidant or whatever on the board, and has been sitting on a couple cards in their hand since near the beginning of the game, I'm generally almost positive they're going to be named Swords to Plowshares or something similar (This is why I'm actually testing Cabal Therapy in my sideboard). Therefore I'm going to kill the creature they have in play off before I drop my Garruk.
I need the Grips. Back to Basics and Blood Moon are running rampant and that single maindeck Grip's been better than the 4th Edict so far.
Has anyone thought of a Cunning Wish 4c build? Cunning Wish-> Krosan Grip sounds pretty nice.
Team Battletoadz: Fuck the Meta-police?
If it's all in our heads, it's best that we don't loose them.
Yes, they've been posted within the last couple of pages.
I've been having some pain with Moons too, but in the Magus form. Apparently Belcher now runs 3 of him and 5 Blasts mainboard...
I was tossing around ideas in my head and came up with this: Replace a Monastery with an Eternal Dragon and the other with a Plains (I run Goyf so I'm not short on wincons, but this isn't about him [also, Dragon is a secondary wincon]). Anyway, I figured this wouldn't change things too much since the you're replacing non-blue-producinglands anyway (you can count dragon as a land drop). It would allow for fetching of the Plains for StP if you're stuck without a fetch or if your opponent did this before you got to start playing.
Of course, I'm not sure how good this would be in actual play, and it doesn't do much against Blood Moon..eh, what do you think?
Blood Moon/Magus is gonna screw us, and it's gonna be played in every dragon stompy deck you see (8 total). If they main deck it, youre pretty boned. Just try to counter it at all costs and don't keep unanswerable hands against it. If it resolves game 1 you should just scoop and not waste the time. Game 2 board in all your blue elemental blast effects and any enchantment removal. Make sure you can respond to it by fetching a basic, and try to run at least one basic (an island for BEB is nice). Keep counter mana open pretty much for the entire game (remember they have eight, so a top deck is likely). We're pretty lucky that its pretty much only played in dragon stompy because no one has realized its broken in half quite yet.
Good luck.
More like be thankful that there aren't enough mono-red/ other feseable decks to take advantage of it. Blue Blasts are pretty much the best way to handle something like that outside of mulling into turn one Force + blue card, but you're as good as dead if they get the almighty turn zero Blood Moon, meaning you can't even fetch your Island. Thanks Taco, thanks a lot ^_^.
Team Battletoadz: Fuck the Meta-police?
If it's all in our heads, it's best that we don't loose them.
Yep. Force is always your best bet.
On another note what is the best graveyard hate option available to landstill in particular? I'm deciding on these, and have them ranked in this order:
1. Leyline of the Void
2. Tormod's Crypt
3. Planar Void
4. Extirpate
Extirpate is last mainly because it's very ineffective vs. breakfast, which sees the most play out of all the graveyard dependant decks (don't get me wrong, it rocks). What do you think though?
How is Extirpate ineffective against Breakfast? I think Extirpate is the best choice, since it's also useful in non-graveyard-dependent MU's.
The Source: Your Source for "The Source: Your Source for..." cliche.
The good breakfast player will therapy it away before they even get to their combo piece. I'm just saying because leyline straight up stops the combo.
Agreed Extirpate is bomb against Breakfast, counter one of their combo pieces and pate it, kill a goyf and pate it, let them combo off and pate Dread Return or Sutured Ghoul, whichever they hit first...
Extirpate seems like the best GY hate for this deck cause it's also not horrible if you just remove your opponents 4 Goyf from deck, or 4 Counterbalance, or 4 Survival, getting any of those answered off of 1 counter and 1 Extirpate can be a huge boost in controlling the game from there out.
If they happen to draw into one of their 2-3 Therapy. When they have Therapy (a 2-3 of) and you don't have Brainstorm (as a 4 of), it's lackluster otherwise I think its better than the other options. If they decide to wait around until they get one, you're all the better, building up a huge grip of answers.
I've been playing Bardo's old Vorosh Control List with Extirpates in the sideboard. Every match I play (competitive decks -with no one ofs- ) I sideboard in 4 Extirpates. One memorable one, was just today at our local tourney, I extirpated all of this threshold players creatures. You could get rid of Wastelands, Swords to Plowshares, Pithing Needles, just to name a few. The next best one is Tormod's Crypt in my opinion. It's good the second it comes down and is obviously incredibly easy to cast.
And then you Force/ whatever the Therapy. If they wait too long, you have Stifle for th CiP ability of the Ghoul (for the builds that still play it), Counterspell and Cunning Wish (for the builds that run it) -> Extirpate EoT, which should do alright as well. Crypt is kinda bad against them, but it does work. Extirpate might not work as well in that MU, but it rapes all over the control mirror. Extirpate on FoW is pretty much GG against a large number of decks (Threshold can't resolve relevant spells through your counter wall/ control anymore, niether can Fish, ect. ect. If TES tries to time-walk you with a Chant they get it 'Pated and now lose to FoW, you take a combo-enabeler, so on and so forth). It's just damn broken.
Team Battletoadz: Fuck the Meta-police?
If it's all in our heads, it's best that we don't loose them.
I understand you guys are really attacked to extirpate so ill ask this:
What's better in landstill against graveyard matchups (breakfast, ichorid, and loam specifically)? Leyline of the void or planar void? Planar void doesn't force you to mull for it which is nice.
It really depends on what variant your running
with 4c I would deffinately go with leyline
in uwb I would go planor void.
Reasoning being you dont want to deed away your planor void and 9/10 you never deed for more then 3
I wonder how the discussion is going with bardo. Do you have any idea taco?
Planar Void sucks if you're planning to utilize Crucible or Life From the Loam... I really think Extirpate is best, but would use Leyline of the Void or Tormod's Crypt + Academy Ruins before I resorted to Planar Void
Crypt + academy ruins only works against incompetent players (most will board, a- pithing needle, b- bounce, c-grip)...
Ichorid/loam/breakfast are in no hurry to win the game, they can sit and wait for their SB cards (unless you have humility HAHAHA!!, JK).
Leyline is best for 4c, for 3c you definitely want extirpate... which isn't just good against graveyard reliant decks, as it can help out an many many MUs, especially against opposing control decks.
Leyline of the void meets stern proctor and abeyance nullifies tormod's crypts. Also their aether vials can just go the mile with any landstill deck to an extent and can keep their combo outlets more intact. The Breakfast player can just wait and then strike. An compotent player with cephalid breakfast is never in a hurry to win games when need be. Not saying that the breakfast matchup is not winnable for landstill though. I personally think Clemen's UWB landstill deck has a solid chance against breakfast since explosives are relevant in that matchup.
Last edited by Mister Agent; 01-27-2008 at 12:12 PM.
Planar Void forces you to either Mull for it or Brainstorm into it on the first turn, because it's useless after the first couple turns.
That said, against pure graveyard matchups, Extirpate is still better than either of the Voids. Against Ichorid, they can bounce an enchantment, whereas you can Extirpate Bridge from Below, STP Ichorids, Plague for Horrors/Illusions, and generally own face.
Leyline and Planar Void belong in aggro or aggro-control decks, or combo decks. Extirpate is a monster in Landstill, and running without it is a complete mistake.
@Tacosnape: I still don't get why extirpate is better than the "voids" so ill just dismiss it for now. Maybe I'll figure it out later.
I'm looking for an instant win condition to run as a one of in the board. What do you guys think is the best one to run in landstill?
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