[ATW] Landstill

[diffy]

1. What are the min/max number of lands you should run?

23 lands are the absolute minimum with some sort of way to tutor them up (Eternal Dragon) or a really low curve.
From then onwards people tend to play 24-26 lands.
I personally find 26 to be very high but if you're playing more than 3 colors and some Wastelands I can see the reason why you'd want to go that high.

2. What is the skeleton of a landstill deck(i.e the cards you must run, like bs/standstill/force).

Lands
4-8 Fetchies
4 Mishra's Factory
0-4 Wastelands
0-4 Basics
0-n Duals

Permission
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
0-4 Stifle

Card Draw
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
0-3 Fact or Fiction

Utility
0-2 Crucible of Worlds / Life from the Loam

Removal
4 Swords to Plowshares / Other cmc1 spot removal (Ghastly Demise, Innocent Blood...)
3-4 Pernicious Deed / Wrath of God
2-3 Engineered Explosives / CrimePunishment

Based on that skeleton there are several builds at the moment:

• UW Landstill with heavy Enlightened Tutor engine / Counterbalance
• UWb Landstill with Humilities and Cunning Wish
• Ubg Landstill with Tarmogoyf/Tombstalker
• Ubg Landstill with Planeswalkers
• 4c Landstill with Tarmogoyf/Tombstalker
• 4c BHWC Landstill

3. Basics, yay or nay?

In anything not 4c yay.
In 4c 0-2 are just fine.

[galeng]

So, if no one is playing Goblins or any other deck that wins by exploiting tribal synergies in your area, then drop the Plagues.

Yeah you're right. Other than the goblin matchup the plagues really just serve as crappy utility, or as a mini deed.

Another thought: Is there a difference between 4 blue elemental blasts board or 2 blue blasts and 2 hydroblasts? I'm thinking of just having 4 blasts in there and 1 hydroblast for routine purposes (the hydroblast should always stay in the board for cunning wish), but I'm worried the differences in card name will actually affect gameplay. Ex: Cabal Therapy. Does it really matter? I see a lot of successful lists with the straight up 4 blue blasts anyway.

[zulander]

Okay, so here's my U/B/G/w list:

Mana: 25
4 Delta
4 Strand
4 Trop
4 Sea
3 Tundra
2 Islands
4 Factories

Disruption: 18
4 Thoughtseize
3 Swords
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
2 Deed
1 EE

Draw: 11
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
2 Fact or Fiction
1 Gifts Ungiven

Other Win-Cons: 6
4 Goyf
2 Garruk

Still working on a sideboard, but TS is the nuts in the deck so far.

[Bovinious]

Gifts doesnt seem very good, theres no Gifts pile in that list that just wins, itd probably be better off as another FoF. Also, wheres Monastery?

[Arsenal]

@zulander

Please explain the singleton Gifts. Looks interesting if you played Crucible, but you do not. If I was to cut anything, it'd be that singleton Gifts and add 1 StP. I understand you have Thoughtseize, but StP should always be an auto-4of in any Landstill deck, imo.

[zulander]

Gifts gets you whatever you need. Need removal? get 1 swords/deed/ee, need a win con? Get goyf/garruk/factory. Need some disruption? Get force/cs/ts. The fourth card is almost always a FoF or still, and I usually never get those.

[Arsenal]

Gifts gets you whatever you need. Need removal? get 1 swords/deed/ee, need a win con? Get goyf/garruk/factory. Need some disruption? Get force/cs/ts. The fourth card is almost always a FoF or still, and I usually never get those.

I suppose, however, you're sacrificing future consistency for the "right-now" approach, but I can see how that would work in a tight situation. The thing I like about all control decks, Landstill being no different, is it's redundancy and consistency to naturally draw into answers; you don't really need to Tutor for anything.

Interesting take.

[zulander]

You don't really need to Tutor for anything.

I'm still testing with the one of but it seems pretty strong late game. It helps out tremendously against decks that are also geared for the late game. Sometimes you just need that last oomph to put the cap on the game.

you're sacrificing future consistency for the "right-now" approach

Actually it's the other way around. You're sacrificing the "right-now" answer (swords) for late game consistency since you can always get fof/still/bs with your late game gifts.

@bovi: I haven't tried adding in monasteries yet since they don't produce colored mana early (neither does factory I know), but they also come online much later than factories. Maybe -1 sea +1 monastery could fly, but so far with garruk/goyfs I haven't needed it.

[Arsenal]

Actually it's the other way around. You're sacrificing the "right-now" answer (swords) for late game consistency since you can always get fof/still/bs with your late game gifts.

By running 3 and 4's of virtually everything important, you have a certain degree of redundancy and consistentcy in your natural draws. By playing Gifts for StP/EE/Deed (choosing one of them for right-now removal), you have now permanently reduced the chances of having your natural draw give you what you would've drawn anyway (one of those cards you Gifted for).

[blac198990]

hows the garruk/goyf kill working for you, I've used it for some time now and it has worked wonders for me. If your using garruk/goyf kill, you don't monestary, it's just more colorless mana that is not needed when you could use that slot for things like ee and such.

[Arsenal]

hows the garruk/goyf kill working for you, I've used it for some time now and it has worked wonders for me. If your using garruk/goyf kill, you don't monestary, it's just more colorless mana that is not needed when you could use that slot for things like ee and such.

Yes, I'd like to know this too. Have you ever felt as though Goyf was making you cast him semi-early, then try to protect him (similar to Thresh)? Or has the versatility of playing the aggro-control role, then switching to pure control (24 turn wins) been paying off? I'd like to know what your testing has found.

[Mental]

I'm building Ugb Landstill. I know a couple things about my list:
1) I don't want to run Goyf. I have tested it and didn't like it that much.
2) I want to run Vedalken Shackles

I like Bardo's list...it was my starting point.

Here's my current list:

4x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
3x Underground Sea
3x Tropical Island
3x Island
4x Mishra's Factory
1x Academy Ruins
2x Mutavault
3x Wasteland

4x Shriekmaw
4x Pernicious Deed
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Vedalken Shackles

4x Force of Will
4x Counterspell

4x Brainstorm
4x Standstill
3x Fact or Fiction

2x Crucible of Worlds
2x Garruk Wildspeaker

Sideboard:
4x Engineered Plague
4x Leyline of the Void
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Krosan Grip

Any comments/help? I think my goblins MU isn't as good as it should be, with limited testing.

[holkenborg]

Quick aggro decks like goblins are just bad matchups for Landstill. I don't think that will really change. You could play Innocent Blood instead of Shriekmaw to kill a turn 1 Lackey when you loose the roll. I test a lot against Goblins and Meathooks, because the friend I test with, plays only these two decks. Against Goblins I find my 4 Stifle very handy, because the thing about goblins is... you can Deed everything, but then they cast a Matron or Ringleader and they keep on coming with new ones.. If you prevent them from finding new goblins, you can win on card advantage. At least, that is my experience. And of course, after sideboard, I (different for everybody) have 4 Hydroblast en 3 Engineered Plague :)

Against Meathooks it is simpler. Make sure your Deed comes through and counter the Vial. I don't play StP (but Edict), so Crystalline doesn't matter to me. Engineered Explosives (I run 2 and want to put 2 in Sideboard) are just as good as Deed for they'll kill them all if you put it on 2 :) They use a lot of fetch, so try to Stifle early fetch (of course...).

But this is of course my experience with someone just in our rooms, not at a tournament.

[zulander]

Yes, I'd like to know this too. Have you ever felt as though Goyf was making you cast him semi-early, then try to protect him (similar to Thresh)? Or has the versatility of playing the aggro-control role, then switching to pure control (24 turn wins) been paying off? I'd like to know what your testing has found.

Goyf/garruk is awesome. I've added 2 monasteries to my list and I am not disappointed. As far as playing goyf early his benefits are below:

1. He helps the burn matchup a ton.
2. If you have to mull to five he'll usually make a very very bad hand better.
3. Playing then protecting isn't hard, but this deck can afford to not protect him as you have multiple late game threats.

[holkenborg]

What does "ATW", "BHTW" stand for?

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=5460

Here is a topic about it.

[Burr]

Hey, whats a standard sideboard against today's meta game?

[Tacosnape]

Hey, whats a standard sideboard against today's meta game?

Assuming you're not running Cunning Wish, I'd select some of the following, based on your splashes.

Any Build:
Blue Elemental Blast / Hydroblast

White Splash:
Meddling Mage
Pulse of the Fields (Only in 3C or less)

Black Splash:
Engineered Plague
Extirpate

Green Splash:
Krosan Grip
Life From The Loam

My 4C Sideboard varies based on the evening. The standard 4C Sideboard is

4 Meddling Mage
4 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Engineered Plague
3 Extirpate (Can be 4 with 3 Plagues)

However, I prefer Krosan Grip to be in my board, so I run:

4 Meddling Mage
4 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Engineered Plague
2 Extirpate
2 Krosan Grip

I do, however, keep the 4th Plague, the other 2 Extirpates, and a couple of Life From The Loams around in preparation to alter the board based on what I expect to see in a given tournament.

[blac198990]

the sideboard really matters for your meta, but if your going blind, either run tacosnapes first list or us this one:


4 Meddling Mage
2 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Engineered Plague
4 Extirpate
2 krosan grip


this board helps with more of the threshold countertop sides.

[blac198990]

played in an 8 man tourny last night with my goystill. I took first with a 4 round then top 4 playoff situation.
First match was against Jon S. with his UBW countertop tombstalker deck. won both games with an early goyf, which him having countertop on board.
1-0 match 2-0 games
second match was against adam G with the deck I think called eva green(black with goyf splash, very very good deck). first game was won by garruk, second game won by double goyf.(was able to pull off stifle fetch/standstill first game)
2-0 match 4-0 games
third match was against brian W with goblins green splash
first game was garruk with deed ee crazy, second game was triple goyf beating down huge army of goyfs, oh and ee helped alot too.
3-0 match 6-0 games
last round was against jon P with astral slide deck. First game had to go down to 4 and still didnt see a land but kept a hand with 2 brainstorms and lost because didnt get a land till turn 3 and it was a factory. next 2 games owned with garruk.
4-0 match 8-1 games
playoffs I faced jon P again but this time, I didnt get a bad hand and won with garruk first game and then had a stand off with me having 3 goys then he dropped a loxodon heriarch every time I dropped a goyf, then he dropped a fourth. ehh this is when I topdecked an explosives (first time, I used it for 4)and swung in and won in 2 turns.

5-0 match 10-1 games
finals would have been against adam G, but we decided to split(like we always do) and play some EDH

I also did some testing against a very good meat hooks player, I won 4 out of 5 and the 5th game I didnt draw a single deed or EE which hurts when he had 2 vials in hand and a crystaline, with me only having 1 force.
playoffs I faced

[blac198990]

wow I guess no one likes landstill anymore. I played another tourny on friday and got 2nd out of a 14 man tourny, I played my normal list.

I beat a BWG stalker/grunt.dec, death and taxes.dec, goblins, and tied with atral slide(we decided to play edh instead) and in playoffs I beat RWGB aggro then lost to the slide deck(which I will explain below)

the first game went horrible just like last week with me mulluganing and still not getting a decent hand. second game I was able to drop goyfs early, and had a force for the wrath, but he was able to get a living wish off and get dustbowl and blow my lands, but the goyfs saved me. Third game, I was able to control game till about turn 8 with him playing living wish and bringing back dragon. I was able to get 2 goyfs out and 2 factories, and I had him at12 life, he played a dragon,(I knew he had a wrath in hand cuz of extripate) and he had dust bowl going. So I had to choose to either stop dragon and get him to 4 life or let it go and put him to 8 and leave him with a dragon and nothing for me(I had only 1 counter in hand) so I countered the dragon, and put him down to 4 and hoped for a counter on top, well it didnt show, and next turn I lost the goyfs and a factory, I swung in for 2 then he got that factory, and he eventually got all of my land and I lost. After this game and a couple of other close games where I had to go the third game where I should not have was because of 3 main cards.
volrath's stronghold
life from the loam
dustbowl

I have one of the cards covered with extripate. But the other 2 cards The only Ideas I have to beat them are either mainboard wastelands, but this would change the whole theory of my deck, or put in pithing needles in my sideboard, which is what I'm going to try to do and hopefully I dont plow my pithing needles up to much with deed.

this is the side I want to use for next week.

Sideboard:
4 extirpate
4 meddling mage
3 pithing needle
2 engineered plague
2 combination of engineered plague, BEB, krosan grip by the meta.