The only problem I have with your list is that it has virtually no way to deal with enchantments after they hit the board. The argument against this problem will certainly be that no enchantments can hit the board before you have time to deal with them (Duress, Cabal Therapy, or comboing out faster,) but that's not always true, and I'd like to see some options anyway. If Aura of Silence is on the table, you can't combo out. If Worship/Mongoose hits the board, you can't win. If Solitary Confinement sticks, you're done.
Post-board you've got Pernicious Deed for these problems, and I grant that they don't see all too much play, and you should have time to Duress/Cabal Therapy them out, but I'd like to see if there is some way to deal with them. Viridian Shaman becoming Viridian Zealot, maybe. Or finding room for a Monk in the board. In fact, I'm not sure that Monk Realist doesn't simply have more applications that the Shaman anyway. Just a thought.
To say nothing of Leyline of the Void. You really can scoop to that before the game starts. Gamekeeper beatdown, anyone?The only problem I have with your list is that it has virtually no way to deal with enchantments after they hit the board. The argument against this problem will certainly be that no enchantments can hit the board before you have time to deal with them (Duress, Cabal Therapy, or comboing out faster,) but that's not always true, and I'd like to see some options anyway. If Aura of Silence is on the table, you can't combo out. If Worship/Mongoose hits the board, you can't win. If Solitary Confinement sticks, you're done.
Game 1 vs. IGG could go like this about half the time:
you: P or D?
him: P.
you: OK.
him: Leyline.
you: Hmm. G2?
You guys are certainly looking for worst case situations here huh? Well first off. Thankfully only I and one other person play Confinement at my store, and yes the 8 discard spells are AMAZING ways to deal with it. Infact the deck is more resilient than you might want to give it credit for. I've certainly seen the deck win on turn 2 before so its got speed to race hate. But as a combo deck its got more outs against disruption than ANY other combo deck in the format. I think what scares people away from the deck is thinking how many things are bad for it. Crypt, Needle, Leyline, CotV, Ivory Mask effects.. ect. This combo deck has 8 discard effects, 4 removal spells, and 4 wishes to fetch answers to multiple problems as well as improve combo consistancy.Originally Posted by Finn
What other combo deck can fight that much hate?
Go ahead, think of one..
I think I forgot to add Monk to the sb honestly. I really dislike Zealot because of the extra mana commitment along with the 11GGGG needed to play wish, him, and kill your target. Honestly.. Fuck that.
Keep in mind there are a few of us that prefer to play with Deeds main with a slower stable combo route in mind. Humility and Worship are shit against mr. deeds.
Now playing real formats.
Why doesn't this deck just pack a Vindicate or two? It's got the base to support it, and Vindypants can take out Meddling Mage, Pithing Needle, Tormod's Crypt, Leyline of Teh Void, etc.
Lets see, Solidarity can fight through: REB's, Pyroblast, Pyrostatic Pillar, Boil, Boiling Seas, Tsunami, Armageddon, Meddling Mage, Arcane Lab, Counterspells, Crypt, Chant, Abeyance, Sphere of Resistance, Trinisphere... and all of the discard packages.
Solidarity. I'm constantly impressed by Solidarity's ability to not be affected by the stuff people board for it.
That's not really the point, though. The point I want to make is that while there are cards that hose other combo decks like Solidarity, IGG, and Nausea; some of the cards (and 1 in particular) that make trouble for Salvager Game are maindeck in several decks: Swords to Plowshares, Pithing Needle, and even Force of Will. So, even if you do have better capability to deal with disruption, you effectively face more disruption. That said, I really like this deck, and if I could find some LEDs I would play it.
I think that this is one of the huge things the deck has going for it, however, your last list only had deed in the sideboard. Does this mean you're running them main now? If so, what did you drop for them? Of not, what do you board out for them?
Proud member of team theVault.
Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards.
It makes them soggy and hard to light.
Barring Leyline, Punishment might solve a good number of these problems. And if you have to, you can pop your gamekeeper and Leyline in one swift blow.
-Steve
How come it needs to be a holiday to bang noobslayer's sister?
That will not work since they are leaving at the same time it will still remove the Gamekeeper from the game first.
I like the idea of playing Vindicate but since White is more like a splash color in the deck it's probably not worth the effort. But as of right now I'm currently running 1 Pernicious Deed MD with 1 Pernicious Deed, 1 Engineered Explosives, 1 Stern Procter and 1 Viridian Zealot in the Sideboard.
Mythic Rogue Deck Builder
Team Freshly Baked Crayons
Team Albany
Ok so there is Solidarity. Tho they can fight through many hate cards, even specific storm ones it still has bad matchups to resource denial decks like Deadguy. Infact Solidarity has a terrible games against Salvagers. You can combo just as fast, but you have proactive combo protection whereas your opponent has reactive. (Remand, Force, bounce) I think that was my point really.
This deck has the amazing ability to neuter your opponent in the first 2-3 turns then combo off without a care in the world. I dont loose CA off my discard unlike Force of Will, and unlike Force my disruption actual works towards the goal of comboing off. Innocent Blood will kill the Meddling Mage and the keeper. Therapy strips my opponents needle away then sacs to oath keeper. No combo decks in the format pack as much disruption as this deck. That in turn gives it a better game against other combo decks. Especially when we arent playing Ill Gotten Gains, Helm of Awakening, or any other opponent friendly cards.
I usually board out the Nights Whispers and the lone Aether Spellbomb for Deeds when needed. I like them main too but I really havent decided if theyre worth it or not. I really like going all out combo ftw game 1. Game 2 is when you act more conservative against your opponents anti combo cards. Deed cleans them up.
Now playing real formats.
In my opinion:
Scrap this deck - it's awful.
1. Too inconsistent.
- How many cards does this deck really need to do anything?
2. Too slow.
- There's no way Gamekeeper is going to resolve without heavy backup which this deck lacks in so many ways.
3. Too outlandish.
- People are just trying various things to do with a Gamekeeper when all you really need to do is smash someone's face for 11 rather than have to do all the Artifact and Salvager nonsense to make yourself look good for the sake of looking good.
4. No showings.
- Rare. Whether or not people agree, the Game is Rock w/ combo. Rock/Game is so much more solid than a deck of this type.
5. This isn't Type 1.
- Don't try throwing in cheap artifacts with a bunch of combo pieces and then call the deck a decent combo...when it really isn't lol.
The Game>>>>>>>>>>>>Salvagers Game.
TMD tried improving a deck that already was optimum...this deck is apart of the
"Don't Let This Happen To You Crowd".
Technically, two. Gamekeeper and a sac outlet will do it, Salvagers and an LED will do it. The strength of the deck lies in the fact that a lot of the pieces double as disruption. And they all find each other.
Lacks backup? Are you kidding? It packs 8 maindeck discard spells. What more do you want?
Or the whole "Win before your opponent untaps" thing. I'd prefer not to give my opponent three more turns to live.
The rest of your comments were irrelevant. Because the deck hasn't had a string of huge showings is a good reason to keep it out of the LMF forum; it's not a good reason to stop working on it.
Just because you've had some success with The Game doesn't mean that people should stop working on Salvager Game. Honestly, posts like yours aren't very helpful.
There's a reason I've had success with the Game - it's because it's proven better than this.Just because you've had some success with The Game doesn't mean that people should stop working on Salvager Game. Honestly, posts like yours aren't very helpful.
Well then here's something that might ACTUALLY be helpful to you, since you're so unequivocally sure of yourself-
"The ultimate victory in competition is derived from the inner satisfaction of knowing that you have done your best and that you have gotten the most out of what you had to give." - Howard Cosell (Legendary Sports Journalist)
2: Equip above statement to this whole thread to remove your target nonsense from reality.
Last edited by Michael Keller; 06-18-2006 at 08:54 PM.
You obvously havent dont any testing with this deck at all. Come in here with some real discussion. If you've played the deck give us insight to your matches. Maybe you made play mistakes or didnt see an out the deck gave you. This is one of the harder combo decks in the format, but its also one of the most dangerous because it wins combo mirrors easily.
I dont need to argue why Golden Grahams is better than The Game, look at its results. Dont try to de-evolve our deck.
Now playing real formats.
Wow Legend. Way to come out of nowhere and hijack a thread. Back to the issues at hand...
I'd like to talk about matchups for a moment. First, Goblins. I have no trouble racing them since a resolved Gamekeeper means that they have to build up to kill me in a single turn or I go off. The biggest issue I find to be Wasteland. I was only running 1 each of basic forest/plains/swamp and the rest fetches and duals. I'm feeling that's a little light and plan to move to 2 forest, 2 swamp, 1 plains. (There's also the occassional game where they have Kiki-Jiki, a Matron and 2 other Goblins in play, giving them the ability to do 4 damage at instant speed by matroning an Incinerator to hand but that seems to be their only other real out).
The one I'm worried about more is Threshold, especially UGw since Swords and Mages (and occassionally Needles) on top of counters are a wrecking ball. How have other people dealt with this matchup? I have 2 MD Pernicious Deeds as well as a stocked wishboard that help deal with a lot of random things but throwing the counter wall on top of everything is tough. I was thinking 4 SB Xantid Swarms since we're already running green. Any other ideas or tips about how to play the matchup?
Welcome to the source! Cool nick name.
Swarm isnt a bad idea at all if you see alot of thresh in your meta. I do understand your Wasteland concerns, I've started running 5 basics to help out.
Now playing real formats.
i am playing this deck for some time now and i must admit i love it
UGW-******** is a problem indeed, but i dont think xantid swarm is the best solution, you can duress or therapy their fow or swords to plowshares. The real problem are meddling mages or pithing needles, so i think your better off with pernicious deed in your sideboard (or mainboard). Game 1 the only solution is to wish for viridian shaman or bone shredder (or innocent blood if they have no other creatures)
Depending on what mage named. If they needle/mage the wrong thing (or even if they don't), you can tutor or trinket mage up an aether spellbomb and bounce the offending permanent.
Proud member of team theVault.
Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards.
It makes them soggy and hard to light.
Bump.
So this deck has been a top 8 monster at Grand Prix Philly, Grand Prix Lille, and now Gencon Worlds. Is it time to pay more serious attention to the underdog of combo? Iggy Pop and Golden Grahams have been bashed and hated out of the source on many occasions. A long time ago Solidarity was hazed and beaten on. Then more people started to play it. People started to pilot it better.
Get on the band wagon.
Here's my new list.
Mana 28
1 Scrublands
2 Savannah
4 Bayou
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 High Market
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
Control 14
4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Innocent Blood
2 Pernicious Deed
Engine 10
2 Auriok Salvagers
3 Gamekeeper
3 Chromatic Sphere
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Aether Spellbomb
Search/Draw 8
2 Night's Whisper
3 Living Wish
3 Infernal Tutor
Board 15
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Darksteel Colossus
2 Darkblast
2 Pithing Needle
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 City of Brass
1 Gamekeeper
1 Auriok Salvager
1 Trinket Mage
1 Kjedorian Dead
1 Viridian Shaman
Ive gone and maindecked 2 Deeds. Why not? Vindicate wouldnt work because its too hard to keep the white up for sorc speed removal the turn I should win. If you can get it to work go for it.
Now playing real formats.
Guys, do we really need the gamekeeper??
i've brainstormed a little and I've thought that we could use Gift Ungiven fetching for:
Salvager (wich goes to your hand)
LED (to 'yard)
Reanimate (to 'yard)
Recoup (to hand)
Playing Gifts this way in the EOT we can untap and get the combo started, of course we still need a spellbomb for the kill.
By the way, looking at a Type 1 deck wich uses the same combo, I realized 2 things:
-Enginered Explosives , should be in the deck, after comboing we can destroy every sngle permanent with a casting cost from 0 to 5.
-That deck didn't play pyrite for the kill, after comboing out it simply stacked his hand with counters and killed you in the next 2 turns with a full set of Trinket Mages and 3 Salvagers, maybe this is also viable in Legacy.
You could do that, but unfortunately it's a bit slower than the Gamekeeper approach (and by a bit, I mean a lot.) You're going to take up about the same amount of room, and leave yourself roughly as vulnerable with that package, and you don't really gain much, except maybe the occasional Meddling Mage naming the wrong thing, and Force of Will (which will probably have to replace some of your discard.)
After comboing, there aren't too many permanents that will stop you from winning outright, and those can be dealt with through Pernicious Deeds or Wishing for an answer. And T1 is a very different format than T1.5, so the shaping of the hand thing doesn't work quite as well here. For one thing, your matchup versus Rifter and Train Wreck would become horrible, which is not what you want to happen with a combo deck. Goblins may be able to simply race you in the next couple of turns, or put the game away with some techy Sharpshooter/Siege-Gang action. We might as well include one more card to put the game away now, rather than wait a couple of turns just to insure one less dead card (and for that matter, who plays Trinket Mages in this thing? Who plays any blue at all? What you're talking about seems like Salvagers, not Gamekeeper, which is kind of a different deck entirely.)
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
