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Thread: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

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    [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Turbo Eldrazi


    Turbo Eldrazi, or 12post as most folks will name it, is a ramp deck with a very narrow core card list. Because of this the potential cards are large and because of the inordinate amount of mana you can generate the cardpool is increasingly magnified.

    The core:
    4 [TSP] Vesuva
    1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
    4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
    4 [FNM] Cloudpost
    1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
    1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

    Because this core constitutes a good chunk of your manabase it leaves the remainder of the deck up for considerable variation. The weakness of a deck where you are strongly encouraged to plant one of 4 cards into play, Cloudpost, is when your mana and selection are pressured. Thus increasing land tutors and hand improvement is paramount. That leaves us with an addition of some fixing.

    Supplemental spells:
    [M11] Primeval Titan
    [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
    [5E] Brainstorm
    [UL] Crop Rotation
    [ZEN] Expedition Map

    Finally there is a need for acceleration

    [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
    [US] Show and Tell

    and removal/protection

    [GP] Repeal
    [M10] Pithing Needle
    [IA] Glacial Chasm
    [LG] Karakas
    [CMD] Bojuka Bog

    It is in this last portion that the most variation is introduced and often the modifications to this will adapt the deck to your particular meta.

    Since combo will give you the hardest time and the core of your deck is your mana base, you can afford to side in heavy amounts of cards without diluting your deck's potency, merely its kill's consistency. Since against combo you rarely care about winning before them, this is not a problem.


    The concept of the deck is simple enough. You sacrifice early tempo and board control for late game overwhelming advantage through uncounterable win conditions, removal, and damage.

    The difficulty of the deck is that your average archetype in legacy involves 2-3 decisions per turn with diminishing choices after the first three turns. Turbo Eldrazi is the exact opposite. You often have 1-2 decisions in the first two turns, and every turn thereafter the number of choices increases exponentially. By your turn 4-5 you often have to make more decisions than a normal deck makes in 3 games of magic. Compounded on this increase in number of choices, your first few choices have incredibly large impact for the remainder of the game. As a teammate Scott Hughes aptly stated, "With this deck you can play the wrong land on turn 1 and lose the game for yourself."

    That being said, the most successful variant of the deck is as a Control deck that has the ability to combo finish.

    Combo, especially random combo, is Eldrazi's hardest matchup. The reason is that restricting both the timeframe to build up mana and the avenue to interrupt their combo is the best way to counteract the holistic and inevitable defeat that Turbo Eldrazi brings to a matchup. Waiting will always result in a loss against Turbo Eldrazi, there is no competitive deck with a greater endgame.


    Hand Keeping and starting concepts
    Hand keeping is the most important skill with this deck. I have often said that if you aren't blown out by turn 3, you should win that game, and hand keeping is paramount to achieving that. Manafixing/preserving and a constant flow of land drops are your major early concerns so your starting hand will influence how you enable this flow. It is for this reason that I suggest heavy playtesting for anyone who wants to have success with the deck at competitive events. My best simple guide to hand keeping would best be put as a priority of axioms and some general rules.

    Don't keep hands without turn 1-2 plays.
    - The deck runs 21 cmc 1 spells on turn 1. Often you are clearing the counter-wall path for a crop rotation to resolve later, so don't be afraid of throwing spells into dazes and pierces early on if you have more relevant spells after them. My priority of willingness-to-get-countered in the early game is from lowest importance to greatest: Candelabra -> Pithing Needle -> Map -> Brainstorm -> Sensei's Divining Top -> Crop Rotation. As the game progresses those priorities shift, but for the purpose of opening hands I keep the more I have of cards on the higher importance group, with a caveat of multiple crop rotations not being strong.

    Don't keep hands that require you to be unmolested for several turns in regards to discard/destruction.
    - Have faith in the deck. I will often keep hands of 5-6 lands if there are Cloudposts in them or if the remaining 1-2 cards are strong cmc 1 spells like Brainstorm, SDT, or Crop rotation.

    Keeping hands with Eldrazis in them are essentially mulligans to X-y, where X is your hand size, and y is the number of Eldrazis in your hand.
    - This is not true of Primeval titans, since they are castable on turn 3 with candelabras and normal conditions, or on turn 5-6 under duress.

    Don't keep hands on Show & Tell.
    - Show & Tell is your plan B, not plan A. Plan A is sit around, not be pressured due to repeal/bog/karakas/Hatecards doing their jobs, and then casting your stuff. Show and Tell can be a supplement to your hand, but it should never be its primary goal and only avenue.

    Don't be afraid of having Cloudposts get wastelanded early.
    - I will often play Cloudpost on the blind my first turn if possible if I don't have a needle or crop rotation, since it means that they MUST wasteland it that turn or fear me drawing into more answers. Most importantly, it means they cannot develop delvers/heirarchs/vials/lackeys. Hesitating with this deck can easily cause you to lose matches you would otherwise crush.
    - Keep in mind that this logic is turned on itself when on the draw, where they can play their Turn 1 board advancement, and then wasteland your tapped Cloudpost while maintaining pressure.

    Keep hands entirely differently based off playing or drawing.
    - One of your best cards on the play is Repeal, but it becomes one of the worst on the draw.
    - Against a blind opponent Pithing needle is weak on the play, but strong on the draw. The opposite is true against a known opponent.
    - SDT is amazing on the play, but weaker on the draw. Despite it being weaker on the draw, it is still one of your strongest turn 1 plays.
    - Hate lands, such as Tabernacle, Bog, Karakas, are stronger on the draw after they commit. Obviously Glacial chasm is weaker on the draw due to needing two land drops.

    Dangerous and Risky keeps
    - Low mana hands are your most dangerous keeps. they MUST have either multiple SDT's and/or brainstorms, with a clear path to additional mana and/or shuffle effects for increasing your odds of drawing mana should you see none.
    - All colorless mana source (this includes bog/karakas) hands are dangerous if you have brainstorms and repeals as your only cantrips. Despite this, Vesuva, Expedition Map, SDT, and actual colored sources as outs are an extensive list of outs, so I list this hand as not dangerous.
    - All colored mana source hands are not risky at all. Crop rotations can easily convert 4 colored mana sources into a Primeval titan, or 7 mana for eye of Ugin.
    - Keeping complex hands are ok. Keeping a hand of Trop, Brainstorm, Brainstorm, Crop Rotation, Crop rotation, X, X is ok if you are on the play, and riskier on the draw, but not the end of the world thalia/Chalice-withstanding. In this situation you brainstorm their eot, keeping Crop rotation up at all times for a response to wasteland, brainstorm eot, if you see nothing you crop rotate in upkeep to shuffle, draw and hope, if you see nothing brainstorm in your turn and now you've looked at 7 additional cards for a land and can still shuffle in your next upkeep should the worst happen.



    Matchup Analysis and linchpin suggestions:

    RUG:
    This matchup is entirely dependant on your build, but comes down to what removal spells you are running and what sideboard options you have against them. Chalice is not a strong choice against them since despite them running massive numbers of 1 CmC spells, you do as well and their threats come down first. Better answered involve hindering their mana, which is often streamlined to be spent every turn. Wasteland hugely hurts them, sphere-type effects are ok, but best are propaganda type effects, which force them to choose between damage or board advancement. Elephant Grass is the best answer at the moment. Repeal hits transformed Delvers for 1 mana and draws a card. Candelabra is a liability since they lose to Show & Tell -> anything, which normally is not the case. If they do not have threats then just play land drops and pass. Never walk into counters with crop rotations if possible.

    Maverick:
    Show & Tell for Primeval Titan should be your main goal in this matchup. Pithing Needle as usual always names wasteland. Don't try to get cute and name things that aren't wasteland like Knight of the Reliquary or Qasali Pridemage. Wasteland for all needles all day long. In comes
    The Tabernacle. If they run Armageddon then put in counters, namely Flusterstorm.

    SneakyShow/Omnishow:
    This is a brutal matchup as you run Show & Tell as well and can't afford to go for it against them. Game one is horrendously against your favor and comes down to absurd situations like repealing Omnishow or hoping they go for infinite-mana kill and glacial chasm'ing in response. Game two Venser comes in with all your counters. The goal should just become put Venser in your hand, and put karakas in play to bounce it indefinitely. Obviously side out Show & Tells. Be prepared for Blood Moon, Rebs and Overmaster. If they are running Sneak attack always name Sneak Attack first with Pithing needle, Sneak attack Second, Sneak attack third. If omnishow name Griselbrand. You go positive match percentage if you include three games, if two games then you are slightly lower than favorable.

    U/W Miracles:
    This matchup is vastly in your favor. While counterbalance hits many of your spells, the lack of threats allows you to simply wait and win against any number of counterspells. The only way they can beat you is early clique with counterbalance & top, or counterbalance top and an early Entreat. Humility doesn't stop you, only hinders your Primeval Titan plan.

    Goblins/Affinity/Merfolk:
    After your life total is in the 10-14 range, you should prioritize glacial chasm. Stabilizing for 3 turns should be plenty to Show & Tell a Titan or achieve Eldrazi love. Post side Tabernacle comes in, Elephant Grass is great. Revoker can come in if you feel you need the blockers, but pithing needle is often the superior choice.

    TES/Storm:
    Game 1 your only real avenue of play is Bojuka bog to throw off cabal therapy math, gain massive life from a Show & Tell'd Titan, or repeal a chrome mox in response to infernal tutor'ing. Game Two you bring in massive counters, Tabernacle, and an often-changing sideboard hate array. needle is no good, I side out maps often, 2 eldrazis, 1-2 titans. Keep in your brainstorms as on-top counters win games. If you're playing against 5c, realize you will need multiple counters, one for silence and one for their kill.

    High Tide:
    Your "best" combo matchup. They can't Brain freeze you without incredibly large effort. Still, game one is a nightmare. Needle or stop their candelabras, but Really just go to game 2. Side in Venser (on island), Traps, Chalices, Flusters, the whole shabang. You can safely side out chasm and bog, needles, Show & tell, all is dust. I alternate between if I like Show & Tell in this matchup or not. Still not sure after 100s of tested games.



    Ask for More Matchup breakdowns and I will include them


    Card Availability and Choices:

    **SPACE RESERVED**
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    Recent Placing & Prizes:

    Oct 14 SCG Prov - Split Finals. 1800$
    Oct 22 Hartsdale, NY - Split Top 4. 225$

    The early stages and history of the deck along with an immense amount of answered questions are all on this Development thread. More likely than not, I will refer people to this thread if you ask a question that has been answered already so use it wisely. The search function takes less than 10 seconds to use, which is oft longer than a question would entail and will be more comprehensive than me telling you to use the search function.




    Until a point where I no longer consider this deck the best metagame choice, I will keep my most recent list on this front page with an updated day.



    Current List as of Jan 20, 2013

    // Lands
    4 [FNM] Cloudpost
    4 [TSP] Vesuva
    4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
    4 [B] Tropical Island
    2 [ZEN] Island (2)
    1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
    1 [LG] Karakas
    1 [CMD] Bojuka Bog
    1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
    1 [ON] Flooded Strand
    1 [ON] Polluted Delta
    2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest

    // Creatures
    1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
    1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
    4 [M12] Primeval Titan
    2 [FD] Trinket Mage

    // Spells
    4 [US] Show and Tell
    4 [5E] Brainstorm
    4 [UL] Crop Rotation
    4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
    2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
    3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
    3 [GP] Repeal
    2 [MR] Oblivion Stone

    // Sideboard
    SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
    SB: 2 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
    SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
    SB: 2 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
    SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    SB: 2 [CMD] Oblivion Stone
    SB: 1 [MR] Chalice of the Void
    Last edited by Rock Lee; 01-20-2013 at 12:52 AM.

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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Space Reserved

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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Finally. This deserved a proper thread here.

    Any thoughts on the GW and mono Green 12-Post lists that have been showing up recently? I'd cite some lists but it may not be necessary.

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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Zirath View Post
    Finally. This deserved a proper thread here.

    Any thoughts on the GW and mono Green 12-Post lists that have been showing up recently? I'd cite some lists but it may not be necessary.
    the GW Euro lists are honestly more Maverick than they are Turbo Eldrazi. Turbo Eldrazi is a control deck through and through. It is defined by its manabase, but not inclusive of other decks because of it. For Example the MUD list that relatively recently top 32'd a SCG with Cloudpost as its manabase isn't Turbo Eldrazi. The Euro lists are often GSZ based and mostly focused on board supremacy over card advantage and late game dominance. I have tested every list of GW that has done well, and while they are ok in their own lights, I feel like Maverick was simply stronger than them.

    The mono Green lists I mention several times in the Development thread, but to simplify it, If combo becomes less prevalent and Glacial chasm stops a larger portion of the meta, without Abrupt decay seeing play, then Mono Green could become the wiser play. Running Forest's only real benefit is that it gets around Magus of the Moon, which in an abrupt-decay Deathrite-Shaman enabled meta, seems foolhardy.

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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    You should ironically use the artwork for Lay Bare as the cover picture in the OP.
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    Strange as it may seem, this deck seems like the best place for Ruhan of the Fomori. A 7/7 with the right equipment will end games nightmarishly quick, and it comes with the perk of being blue to pitch to Force of Will if you draw into extra copies. And it wouldn't be too hard to protect him in counter-heavy build.
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS View Post
    You should ironically use the artwork for Lay Bare as the cover picture in the OP.
    I love that image of Kozilek. The sheer power and aura of doom they are imbuing to those paltry soldiers is exactly what Turbo Eldrazi does to players. I used to play Control Slaver in Vintage simply because I sadistically loved seeing people want to gouge their own eyes out. Turbo Eldrazi has the same effect.

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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Just a quick question, is this thread exclusive for the green/blue list or can other variants like mono-green be discussed aswell?

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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Seirei View Post
    Just a quick question, is this thread exclusive for the green/blue list or can other variants like mono-green be discussed aswell?
    Any variant of Cloudpost-related-control is welcome here. Even non-control variants are open for discussion. I have yet to have any success with other variants, but I have tested them significantly. So yes mono green can be talked about freely. I just warn you that I might give you playtesting and results that you may not like as I believe that the mono-green version is inferior to the U/G version at the moment, and my goal is to create and update the most competitive version of Cloudpost related control.

  9. #9

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Rock,

    I notice you haven't seemed to be playing much with All Is Dust, which seems like the most powerful removal spell the deck has at its disposal. What's your reasoning here?

    And again, congrats on the Open finish. That was awesome.

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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Why do you state that the deck is "control"? To me it looks like like you play ramp & combo elements (Show&Tell, Primeval) where you can ignore everything fair that your opponent does, but will likely have a bad matchup against unfair decks. The control elements you run seem to have the primary purpose to extend the game until you cast emrakul or to protect your manabase.
    - Repeal
    - Crop rotation toolbox (Karakas, Bojuka Bog, Glacial Chasm)
    - Pithing Needle (vs. Wasteland)

    For my understanding this is a slow combodeck which cannot be easily disrupted, but does not have the characteristic of a control deck, which primarily stops the opponent from doing whatever he is doing and then (if combo) finishing with a combo.
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    No freaking idea...

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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    The Spanish are putting up top 8s with mono Green, and others splashing white, and/or Black for StP/Deed. Check TCdecks under Post Ramp.

    I dont agree that they are Maverick, It isnt even the same deck.
    How With 4StP, A single Teeg and a few Green Suns?


    The earliest record of Cloudposts top 8'ing(on TCdecks search) is 4 months before Rock did, but a different list using Chalice, Trini, and Tangle(notice his strange Spirit Guide split for no apparent reason).
    http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/bus...ge%20Rubalcaba

    Same search also yielded another player in the same event as you did Rock Lee, top 8'ing with a Miracle based list. Have you tried these as well?
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  12. #12

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by menace13 View Post
    The earliest record of Cloudposts top 8'ing(on TCdecks search) is 4 months before Rock did, but a different list using Chalice, Trini, and Tangle(notice his strange Spirit Guide split for no apparent reason).
    http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/bus...ge%20Rubalcaba
    I'm positive Rock Lee was playing Cloudpost to success before that point in time. TCdecks search appears to be incomplete in this regard.
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by menace13 View Post
    The Spanish are putting up top 8s with mono Green, and others splashing white, and/or Black for StP/Deed. Check TCdecks under Post Ramp.

    I dont agree that they are Maverick, It isnt even the same deck.
    How With 4StP, A single Teeg and a few Green Suns?


    The earliest record of Cloudposts top 8'ing(on TCdecks search) is 4 months before Rock did, but a different list using Chalice, Trini, and Tangle(notice his strange Spirit Guide split for no apparent reason).
    http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/bus...ge%20Rubalcaba

    Same search also yielded another player in the same event as you did Rock Lee, top 8'ing with a Miracle based list. Have you tried these as well?
    I'd be extremely impressed if these lists were making top 8's before I did, as my first top 8 with Eldrazi was in 2008. Ego aside though, if you look at the two Post ramp decks that are doing well outside of this deck design in Europe, there is a stronger similarity to the MUD list from SCG Here than there is the build I run with Eldrazi. The deck essentially tries to be a full on combo deck, that is slower than most aggro decks and all combo decks. I applaud his bravery, but if you look at his standings, he is always knocked out by established combo and aggro decks that are simply faster than he is.

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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by catmint View Post
    Why do you state that the deck is "control"? To me it looks like like you play ramp & combo elements (Show&Tell, Primeval) where you can ignore everything fair that your opponent does, but will likely have a bad matchup against unfair decks. The control elements you run seem to have the primary purpose to extend the game until you cast emrakul or to protect your manabase.
    - Repeal
    - Crop rotation toolbox (Karakas, Bojuka Bog, Glacial Chasm)
    - Pithing Needle (vs. Wasteland)

    For my understanding this is a slow combodeck which cannot be easily disrupted, but does not have the characteristic of a control deck, which primarily stops the opponent from doing whatever he is doing and then (if combo) finishing with a combo.
    The way I play the deck is entirely a preventative strategy. Needle on accelerants and kill conditions, bog to sweep the leg Cobra Kai style against mongeese, repeals on mana or damage like heirarch or delver. I will play slower with trops first if I can crop rotate in response to a wasteland, which is not a combo play but rather a controlling one.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube View Post
    Rock,

    I notice you haven't seemed to be playing much with All Is Dust, which seems like the most powerful removal spell the deck has at its disposal. What's your reasoning here?

    And again, congrats on the Open finish. That was awesome.
    All is Dust is one of the most powerful removal spells, but it is linear in its function and weak against artifacts. From stoneblade forward where equipment have become a staple of Legacy, killing all the dudes but letting them keep their threats around was good, but not as good as I needed it to be. In my opinion if you are running in a meta where you feel you must answer the board, as I simply ignore it for the most part, a combination of All is Dust and Devastation Tide is the correct choice.

  15. #15

    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    I still periodically dabble with the Miracle U/G TurboEldrazi lists, and I'm not sure that I've ever had a Devastation Tide in hand and said "aww man I wish this was All Is Dust".

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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Lee View Post
    I'd be extremely impressed if these lists were making top 8's before I did, as my first top 8 with Eldrazi was in 2008. .
    Rico- I figured that would be true, just wanted to see If anyone tried that list. Also good to have you back posting bud.

    Rock- That would be impossible since Eldrazi were released in April 2010.
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Finally in the Established Decks! I hope for more Eldrazzi finishes :)

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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Hey Rock Lee,

    Outside of Wasteland, what would be the most common cards named under Pithing Needle?

    Also, have you considered running Mindslaver + Academy Ruins? Its really more for the nostalgia reasons ;)
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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by menace13 View Post
    Rock- That would be impossible since Eldrazi were released in April 2010.
    You don't even want to know what I was tutoring up with Eye of Ugin when WWK came out, but yes that was still Feb of 2010. what an exaggerator I am.

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    Re: [Deck] Turbo Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    Hey Rock Lee,

    Outside of Wasteland, what would be the most common cards named under Pithing Needle?

    Also, have you considered running Mindslaver + Academy Ruins? Its really more for the nostalgia reasons ;)
    If they can run any form of removal I name wasteland again. But I usually name off a color coordination and in this priority: Sneak Attack, Griselbrand, Wirewood Symbiote, Quirion Ranger, Liliana of the Veil, Aether Vial, Karn Liberated, Kuldotha Forgemaster, Mangara of Corondor, Man-lands, Rishadan Port, Fetchlands.

    I have named all manner of insane things like Gempalm incinerator, Helm of Awakening, Sterling Grove, Basalt Monolith just to name a few. I have yet to find a competitive deck that doesn't have something to hit.

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