// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)Originally Posted by jandax
// Lands
3 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
1 [PT] Mountain (1)
1 [LRW] Forest (2)
1 [SHM] Plains (4)
3 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [R] Savannah
3 [R] Taiga
2 [R] Plateau
// Creatures
4 [ALA] Wild Nacatl
4 [TO] Grim Lavamancer
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
3 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
// Spells
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [WWK] Basilisk Collar
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
4 [R] Lightning Bolt
4 [RAV] Lightning Helix
3 [LG] Sylvan Library
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
SB: 2 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 3 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 [DK] Blood Moon
I may change the 3 sb blood moons to jotun grunts, as they splash damage lands while still annoying other GY-reliant decks. (re-using watses/canopys is also clutch, in addition to getting basics back in the deck against lands' ghost quarters)
IMHO, PoP just isnt that good against lands after g1, as most all alnds players run some number of zuran orbs and glacial chasms (both tutorable w/ tolaria west) sb or (!!!) main. Good lands players will gain life as they go to avoid a k grip on orb w/ 10 non-basics out. Pop will go a fair distance to winning G1, but something like ruination/armageddon+ exile GY effect or grunt+ another hate effect is needed to take the W.
From Matt Elias' new article at http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/m...Hive_Mind.html
Obviously, a lot of people don't like Lynx for various reasons, but what specific difference in the metagame today is he referring to which makes this an undesirable inclusion?People want to sit down and ask, “Kird Ape, Loam Lion, Steppe Lynx?” The answer is “yes.” The question is contextual. Until you understand that, you’re playing the game but not getting the game. I wouldn’t have won that Legacy Open without Steppe Lynx, but right now, you probably don’t want to play that card.
I've played Zoo for a while in my local meta and have done pretty good. That was, however, untill recently when 5 persons in my meta (out of 15) switched to a weird combo deck that I've never seen before. The deck is a storm kind of combo deck that uses Nefarious Lich combined with lifegain to draw a bunch of cards and then go off. I can't seem to win against this deck and I have a 0-5 record against it. I don't know if it's a rogue deck or not, but perhaps you can help me anyway? Should I just switch deck or do you know any good sb cards I can use against it?
With m11 arrived i want to use the sword of Vengeance with my stoneforge mystic package giving trample to a guy is worth alot.
Switch. Some decks are just not as good at handling combo. It's not that it's an autoloss, but why bring a knife to a gun fight? Using what you've got involves the entirety of Legacy, not just one archetype. If more than a third of the meta (assuming some folks are playing other combo decks) are playing combo, then adjust your strategy to defeat that meta.
EDIT: How much is Trample worth? 6 mana (i.e. two full turns worth of mana)? Again, Rancor's there if you want it. It'll be interesting to see what works better.
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
I'll be sure to test it out, but I don't think it's any better than our existing options.
Against aggro, you'd prefer Jitte or Collar because they're capable of removing creatures and gaining life without the huge tempo sink. The Sword of Vengeance first strike, vigilance, +2/+0, and trample certainly help during combat if it sticks and you're not already in striking distance.
Against control, I don't think Sword of Vengeance helps you race any better than Jitte can. You'd also prefer Sword of Fire/Ice or Light/Shadow for its protection ability and cheaper equipment cost.
Don't feed the troll. Who let Cavius back in here?
Sword of vengeance would teeter on playable if the equip cost was 2. At six mana, a single removal spell double-time walk's you. It doesn't even have to be instant speed, as they can just eat the damage, chain lightning it (as it gains no toughness, nor does it get akroma's prot R/B.) The next series of swords in Scars may be worth including if they're as powerful as SOLS and SOFI. IMHO collar at 3 total play+equip is better than vengeance, with the added bonus of making your (everything) trade with goyf at a gain, and the prospect of a deathtouch, lifelink lavamancer.
Sorry, but why not play Behemoth Sledge instead?
I played an experimental Zoo list with Survival of the Fittest to a third-place finish (5-1 record) at last Sunday's Hassloch Legacy Event (48 players). Report and some notes on how the Tech worked out here.
Team SPOD - ...land of the brave...
Will test on a perhaps very radical build which uses Kiln Fiend, Rancor and Collosal Might. Will post results.
I think Magus of the moon is the best option against lands, and is actually very useful in a lot of other matchups. Particularly, it's useful versus NO-progenitus builds of countertop as they tend to only run 1 forest, thus cutting them off GG if you kill the hierarches too. In addition, you can bring it in versus control to sometimes catch their mana off-guard and turn off man-lands and ruins. While blood moon is better in those other matchups, the magus is better versus lands particularly, because they have much fewer outs to him versus blood moon.
It doesnt just give trample, it gives haste, First Strike and Vigilance as well as pumping the creatures power.
I play flame jab in my lands deck, as does menendian, and I would assume, most lands players at the gp, where zoo and goblins will be played heavily. (each of which are, conventional wisdom says, more likely to want a grey-ogre form of hate than an enchantment) It can be dredged in the bin and cast, while K grip requires both their basic forest/mox and it to be manually drawn. Against other decks, the worst thing to ever to hear in response to cating magus is "in response, float W." In goblins, (or any deck playing vial for that matter,) I would say magus is the pick, as Bant/NOProg don't usually float white in response to matrons being vialed in, so having vial's ability resolve and their lands all suddenly don't tap for swords mana better protects magus.
Again, I may yet cut the moon effects for grunts, as they do well against more than just lands, which will undoubtedly be at the top tables, but not as heavily played as say, other zoo decks or endless horizons, which grunt does something against.
...because you will be casting a relevant creature before you tap three lands to equip sword. Can we please end this debate? Loxodon warhammer and sledge are probably better at both racing opposing aggro, and against storm based combo than sword, and they hardly warrrent discussion because of their equip costs.
I'd like some critique of my list going into tournaments the next couple weekends.
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Kird Ape
2 Figure of Destiny - Still think this guy is underrated on the source. He should fit in the curve since I'm not packing maindeck equipment, and will help out in the mirror.
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Woolly Thoctar/Knight of the Reliquary - Undecided here. I've always been a fan of Thoctar because he can swing right away for 5 even if my graveyard is land light. I don't have many other cards to abuse Knight, although I recognize how beastly he can become.
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path To Exile
3 Chain Lightning
3 Lightning Helix - I expect to see a lot of Zoo mirror, so I think this is better than Fireblast.
2 Price of Progress - I also expect 43Lands to show up, as well as decent amount of control. 2 feels like the right amount maindeck.
2 Sylvan Library - Good against control and the mirror.
4 Wooded Foothills - Pretty typical manabase.
3 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Plateau
2 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
Sideboard:
2 Krosan Grip
2 Gaddock Teeg - Against control and the possibility of combo.
2 Pyroblast
2 Price of Progress
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon - Since Reanimator is no longer fotm, I cut Faerie Macabre. I think 4 graveyard hate should be enough.
1 Stoneforge Mystic - My aggro equipment set.
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Basalisk Collar
Any comments?
Knights works well with Horizon Canopy, and can reset your topdeck after you use Library. I also like the otherwise random ability to sweep the yard with Bojuka Bog, though I'm not sure if I'd actually sideboard a Bog just for that. It's certainly a cute trick.
Another problem with Thoctar is the three colored mana symbols.
I've been thinking that Figure deserves a little more love too, though I certainly understand how horrible the math looks in a vacuum. In the context of a deck though, who knows. Please let us know how he performs for you.
Re: Canopy, is anyone NOT using them? Some have opined that they should not be used since they don't help Apes, Nacatls, etc. Since Knight is increasingly becoming the preferred three-drop though, the synergy there could overshadow such downsides.
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again: one of the biggest reasons Figure is so good is that he gets past Rhox War Monk, Wild Nacatl, opposing Apes/Lions, 3/4 Goyfs, etc. as long as you have 3 mana open. You don't have to pump unless they block. The 2 damage goes through and you can continue to play out your curve as you would normally.
Of course he's still a Pouncing Jaguar in the early turns... but later on he's a real threat unlike Ape/Lion, which more than makes up for it.
That said, you don't often want to see multiples, so I wouldn't recommend 4.
I completely agree on figure. I've been running him for a long time as a 1-of instead of the 4th kird ape, and am never not happy to see him. His ability to get large is way more relevant than in that draw his mana-intensity would matter. I would never remove him and may consider a 2nd sometime, but for now I'm happy with 1.
I dont not play the canopy, I do play 12 fetches with 4 lynxes, 2 knights and 2 sylvans. The knights have doing awesome for me same with the Lynxes and Sylvan, A resolved Sylvan has won pretty much every none-combo matchup i have played. Draws extra cards and filter the draws without any extra mana investment
I have played with the Figure of Destiny before and i found him doing great, playing a stoneforge mystic package atm with jitte, SOFI and SOLS and a collar and a jitte in the board. Probly going to play with figure some more in the future.
I've been playing around with my flex spots recently (where most people would play Apes/Lions/FoDs). I've been putting in cards that I wouldn't mind drawing a single copy of, but wouldn't want to see multiple copies either--stuff like Sylvan Library, Fireblast, etc.
I have an idea that seems really weak on paper at first, and I wouldn't be surprised if I get laughed out of this thread for suggesting it. That being said, here it is: Quirion Ranger
The reason why I think it would be useful is that if it lands, you can ensure that you don't get blown out by Wasteland or Rishadan Port. It also has synergy with Steppe Lynx, Grim Lavamancer, and Knight of the Reliquary, and if nothing else, gives one of your creatures pseudo-vigilance. It's also handy if you're mana screwed and need to generate extra mana in a pinch.
Obviously, none of these effects are gamebreaking or even impressive on their own. But might the benefit of smoothing out these occasional problems worth swapping out a single copy of one of those (pretty lame) 2/3s for a 1/1?
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