I'm surprised that you found looter so bad. Perhaps it is because you are running to many (I run 3) therefore finding it more than you want to, but I almost always really like them. What are your thoughts on Hussar? Is it out of the mana curve? Is it worth the white splash?
I still think Court Hussar is a mediocre card and not worth the Splash. None of the good testing results have to do with the Hussar. It is the only card in the deck that costs doubled colored Mana and the only white card. I would expect more for that since you make your Mana Base easy to attack with the additional 4 Nonbasics. Maybe a reason in adding white could be bombs like Armageddon or Meddling Mage for the Sideboard.
For better Mana costs than the Hussar you could get cards like Vexing Sphinx or Compulsive Research in Blue. Or you can completely crush Aggro with red for with Flametongue Kavu, Pyroclasm and Pyrostatic Pillar against Combo.
With a Green splash you could play Call of the Herd, which is imo stronger in every Situation than Hussar.
I wouldn't be so negative about the Hussar if his Mana cost was 2U, but it is 1WU which is even worse than 1UU and even cards with these Mana costs were considered unplayable.
Originally Posted by Tao
First, let me say that I'm not claiming that Hussar is the wave of the future. I am simply testing a build with him in it and showing my results. It would take a lot more for me to reccomend the white splash to anyone.
Second, I don't think you're getting the beauty of Hussar (I didn't really get it at first either). He doesn't require a splash so much as a baby splash. Unlike all of the cards you named (except maybe Meddling Mage and Compulsive Research) Hussar is the only card that's useful even if you don't have UU, UW, G, or R.
1) It pitches to Mox and Force.
2) It cycles three cards deep for 2U if you don't have W.
All of the other cards you mentioned will sit in your hand unless you have the correct mana to cast them.
As a creature, Hussar is ok. Not a particularly impressive beater, Hussar shines in defense or with a piece of equipment attached. Luckily he comes with an equipment digging mechanism, or at least he can find the more impressive beater you need.
Comparing him to other draw spells like Compulsive Research is a no brainer. He kicks their ass, especially against aggro. Our draw spells are just terrible against aggro, especially Goblins, due to the fact that they are often a time walk for the opponent (remember that the version of this deck that had the best matchup was the original that ran no draw sans Sword). Hussar allows us to dig for a bomb (Jitte, Needle, pro red fella) while stalling aggro decks.
As to him not fitting in the curve, well I was on the fence. After testing the build, I can only remember 2 times in the 30 odd games I've played where I was forced to cast him without white. All the other games I either didn't see him, didn't need to cast him, pitched him, or simply won or lost before it was an issue.
As for the testing data, I have no doubt that the bump in the Thresh match was due to Hussar. What else could it have been? The list was exactly the same as the other lists I have been testing vs. Thresh (which go more like 12-8/13-7ish) is Hussar and Looter. I can promise you it wasn't Looter. The losses to Thresh are almost always due to loss of steam and Hussar helps you prevent that. I felt like I always had cards in hand, and was constintly drawing into Chalices. I've never resolved Chalice as much as I did in these 15 games vs. Thresh. I was digging them up and fetching them like crazy.
Now, is this the beggining of splashing for FS? As to that I can't really say. Like I said, Hussar isn't a good test since he serves so many other purposes even if we don't draw the splash land.
So, this past weekend I took FS to a tournament as well. I went 2-2, though if I hadn't played my first matchup terribly I would have gone 3-1 and been in the finals. First, the list:
Creatures
4 Cloud of Faeries
3 Looter il-Kor
4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
3 Trinket Mage
Spells
3 Fact or Fiction
4 Force of Will
2 Psionic Blast
Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
1 Pithing Needle
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Umezawa's Jitte
Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
8 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
Sideboard (15 cards)
4 Sea Sprite
3 Misdirection
3 Binding Grasp
3 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
Round 1: Brian playing UWB Fish
Game 1 - I win the die role and draw a prety decent hand. For some reason I thought he was playing B/W confidant and my experience has showed me that chalice at 1 does almost nothing against them. Therefore I went tomb-jitte even though a chalice was in my hand. The first thing he did was play and Island and serum visions and I knew I had really screwed up. I dropped chalice at 1 next turn and said pass. Eventually I got a looter on the board and played a sofi which got double forced. His creatures and counters along with my stupidity did me in.
Game 2 - I get a serendib with jitte with chalice at 1 and 2 with HUGE help from a fact or fiction. I finally stabalize at 3 life and he scoops.
Game 3 - No chalice, no trinket mage, 4x STP, GGowned.
0-1
Round 2 - Christian playing Mono-red Burn
Game 1 - Win the die roll again (yes!) and drop a chalice at 1 first turn. He sighs, indicating that he doesn't have a shatterstorm in his hand and a sea drake mops things up.
Game 2 - He mulls to five and says mountain, go. I drop a first turn serendib. He lays a mountain and plays a mogg finatic and says go. I drop my second ancient tomb and play a sofi with the intention of equiping. He takes a while thinking, but eventually decides to fireblast the serendib sacing both his mountains. The game slows down for a bit as we both draw dead. He eventually gets a mountain on the board and shatterstorms my sofi as well as laying2 more mogg fanatics and the gobos start eating away my life total. FoF gets me another serendib which I play, and then I draw a jitte which I play and equip. The jitte tokens start clearing out his fanatics as well as gaining me life when I need it and a few turns later I win.
1-1
Round 3 - ??? playing Pirates.
I know what you are thinking. Pirates?! Yeah.... that's what I was thinking too... But he absolutely DESTROYED ME!!! Gilded drale + bounce = constant creature stealing as well as land bouncing. I had no idea how to play against him and got killed by my own creatures really fast.
1-2
Round 4 - Ben playing Salvagers
Game 1 - Chalice at 1 slows him down and a Sea drake with a jitte ensures his salvagers can't survive.
Game 2 - We go through about half the game with him playing black spells while we don't notice. We finally do and the judge gives us both a warning. Because I would have killed him turn 4 or so without his black cards (F*CK innocent blood x2) so he conceded.
2-2
I'm prety happy with my results so far. I was really off balance the 1st round... and in the end that cost me the finals. Fish didn't seem like a bad matchup, I was just making lots of mistakes. Pirates is frickin stupid... it does great against anything with large creatures and terrible against weenie agro or any kind of combo... so basically a terrible matchup for FS. I like FoF SO MUCH!! I will never go back to TFK as long as I play this deck. Looter is nice... replacable if we splash, but nice otherwise. I think 2 is a good number of Psi-blasts. They came up sometimes and were nice, and other times I was glad that I didn't draw them.
Yeah.. that's about it.
You do realize that outside Misdirection, Force and Jitte, Psi Blast is your best answer to their Gilded Drake/Bounce plan. Also, Chalice at 2=GG them. Needles can fight their mana denial like Isochron Scepter and company. It shouldn't be that bad an MU, you just got to come up with a plan on flight. And of course, fast hand including as many Cloud of Faeries as possible gives you the edge in the mana-speed.
GJ in the tournament, even though I much advocate blind Chalice at 1, even if you believe you're against Deadguy, as it's pretty decent against them (Rituals are pretty much their only shot against you) and wins you a lot of games you'd have no business winning. Only time I'd avoid it is against lands.dec.
EDIT: What do you mean by the black spells? Spells without black mana? Spells through Chalice? What?
He had no black mana source and played tainted pact, duress, and cabal therapy, lol. You are right about the blind chalice at 1 as well as chalice at 1 vs deadguy. What can I say, I played that game terribly. You are also right about chalice at 2 vs Pirates... I just had absolutely no idea what to do that I didn't even start thinking about that until after I had lost.
Anyway if you start and play chalice@1, unless opponent plays moxes, is like you played a timewalk, you have another turn to play anything you want. My experience tells me that always you can play chalice first turn, you have to.
As most of you should already know, the Worlds took place in Paris (France) this year. There was only 1 official Legacy side event, on Friday the 2nd. It could welcome up to 256 players, but we were sadly only 140 players to attend it. I went there, bringing my faerie stompy build, and I finished 2nd. Here is my report:
4 Serendib Efreets
4 Sea Drakes
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Trinket Mages
3 Weatherseed faerie
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Swords of Fire and Ice
4 Umezawa Jitte
1 Pithing Needle
4 Force of Will
2 Thirst for Knowledge
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tombs
1 Seats of the Synod
9 Islands
SB 3 Control Magic
3 Misdirections
1 Sea Sprite
1 Weatherseed Faerie
2 Tormod’s crypts
1 Pihing Needles
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Winter Orbs
Round 1: Gamekeeper/Salvager combo 2/0
1) He plays swamp+duress, then swamp+cabal, getting rid of chalice and a creature. He then living wishes to a Trinket Mage, and Trinket Mages to a Lion’s Eye Diamond. At that moment, I knew for sure what his deck was; I used my own Trinket mage to fetch a chalice, and played it for 0. He cannot handle the chalice fast enough, and dies to a Serendib and a Weatherseed.
2) He keeps a 1 land hand (???). I play Tomb+chalice on turn 1, then Island/cloud of Faerie/SOFI on turn 2. I equip/attack on turn 3. He will not draw his 2nd land before dying, nor play any spell. Why has he kept his hand.
1 – 0
Round 2 : U/G/W Ghostway 2/1
The player asked me not to talk too much about his « secret deck ». He was playing many creatures with nice CIP effects (coiling oracle, mystic snake, Anurid, Hierarch, witness …) coupled with Momentary blinks and Ghostways. And forces of Will, swords … Nice deck, a tad too slow.
1) I didn’t know very well the deck, and fell to many of his tricks. He played a lot of blinks, and I have some kind of mana death, which does not help, and I lose the round to 3/4 Anurids, that I cannot handle, once he has enough manas.
2) Mana Full this time. But chalice=1 on turn 1, Jitte on turn 2, chalice=2 on turn 3. I win this one with a Sea drake, and the Jitte saving me. I attack with Drake, get the Jitte counters, and then swap it to a Trinket Mage that can block as 6/6, preventing my opponent to attack. Blink like effects are annoying versus Jitte, as no damage turns in no counters.
3) Mana Full again. No chalice, but no forces nor Swords for him. Sea Drake on turn 2, Sea Drake on turn 3. 4/3s flying ends quickly the game.
I had stupidly sideboarded Control Magic against him, but I should have sideboarded the Winter Orbs, much more useful here.
2 - 0
Round 3 : MonoB Pox 2/0
He was playing MD Withered Wretch and Confidants.
1) I kept a nice hand, but with 3 Jittes. He plays duress turn 1, I lose my Mox, and the plot thickens. I draw a helpful island. He then plays Hymn, and got 2 Jittes. I probably win it on that. On my next turn, I play Cloud of Faeries+Jitte. He would not draw any kill creatures spells before dying a few turns later.
2) I put in the Misdirections. He starts with land+Mox for Tourach. I nonetheless start with chalice=1. He plays small pox on turn 3, to kill my equipped faerie, but he already has no cards in hand. I keep one card in hand (a land), and topdeks a Trinket Mage. Equiped to Jitte, and ride FTW. I will have the great pleasure to misdirect a sinkhole to one of his lands.
3 - 0
Round 4 : Faerie stompy (table 1) 2/0
1st time I play the mirror in real life. Usually it ends up to who has the most explosive start, and the first proBlue creatures.
1)I start : Turn 1 Island, turn 2 City+Cloud+SOFI. He plays forces of will, me too. gg
2) I sideboarded 3 Control Magic and 3 Misdirections. I play Tomb+Mox+Drake on turn 1, he forces, I misdirect his force. The game starts quite well. He then ask me to return my tomb to hand!!! Completely amazed (the guy was playing Faerie stompy too), I explain him the effect is targeted (2 target lands), and since I only have 1, it fizzles. It will take 10 minutes and a confused Head Judge to confirm that it fizzled. He will then play Cloud+Jitte. I will cast Control Magic on it, and ride FTW.
His sideboard was “awful”: 4 BEBs, Trinispheres, 3 Tormod’s (overkill), no Winter Orbs, no Control Magic of course, etc… Nothing for the mirror.
4 - 0
Round 5 : Threshold U/G/w 2/0
1)Chalice=1 successfully cast on turn 2. I am confident. He plays a meddling mage on Serendib. I play a faerie+Jitte, smahes the mage, and kill him.
2) Chalice=1 again successfully cast on turn 2. Do the American Threshold players know it is game against them? Anyhow, he casts quite early a Grunt, and beats me. A meddling mage on SOFI turns to be quite annoying as I had 2 in opening hand. I managed to play a crypt, empty his graveyard, inderictly killing the Grunt, I must have something like 6 life left. I play aggro Trinket Mages, and he ends up trading it with the mage. I then play a Weatherseed, planning to play SOFI next round. At his turn, he casts another mage, thinks a few minutes, and says Jitte. I play SOFI, equip, kill the mage, and him a few turns later.
5 – 0
Round 6 : Faerie stompy 0/2
A mirror again. And still no Goblins. We are the only 2 of the whole tournament at 5 – 0. This time my opponent is French, unpleasant and does a lot of trashtalking.
1) « Unfortunately », he gets a busted start: Tomb+Mox for a Trinket Mage if I recall well. SOFI equipped on turn 2, gg. Of course, no forces on my side, and a slower start.
2) I sideboarded the chalices for Control Magics and Misdirections. But it is more or less the same thing: I never draw forces, nor equipments, my creatures die to his SOFI, he gets another busted start. I draw my SOFI when I am creatureless.
I am of course pissed of to lose; the tournament had quite well started, but the most annoying thing was that this guy did not stop trashtalking, and got 2 nice hands. He was playing MD Misdirections, 1 tormod’s Crypt, and 2 Mask of Memory instead of 2 Jitte. And only 17 lands. I am even more disappointed to lose to him.
5 – 1
Rond 7 : Thresold U/G/r 2/0
1) After hesitations, I kept a 4 land hand. Chalice gets countered; he beats me with mongeese and almost has Threshold. I manage to get a chalice=1 on board, then a Sea Drake. Once again Jitte saves my life: I attack with Drake, get the Jitte counters, and then swap it to a Trinket Mage that can block as 4/4, preventing my opponent to attack. I win on the long run.
2) Island + Mox for a 1st turn chalice. No counters this time. I play Sea Drake on turn 3, and attack 5 times to kill him. I didn’t draw any of the 8 equipments I play. He later confessed he only had 4 Needles to sideboard against me...
6 – 1
The « trashtalking” guy lost versus the winner of the event : a G/W Terravore/Loam/Armageddon. As a result, we both are at 6 – 1.
Round 8: Burn 2/0
With all the proRed creature I play, the 4 Jittes, and the chalices, this MU is a bye. Unless, he plays that Guildpact replicate spell killing artifacts for R. As most of the time, it was not the case.
1) Serendib on turn 2, Jitte equipped on turn 3, Weatherseed on turn 4. gg. Chalice not even needed.
2)We both mulliganed. Again no chalices, but Serendib on turn 2, Weatherseed on turn 3, Sea Sprite on turn 4. With 3 life left, and 3 cards in hand, he plays Ensaring bridge. I play SOFI on Sprite, and attack FTW.
7 – 1
The stupid trashtalking guy, managed to lose vs Threshold U/G/r, a more then favourable MU. He will end up 6th , at 6 – 2. I will particularly enjoy loudly making fun of him as he was supposed to “teach me how to play my deck”(actual quote)
I end up 2nd, earning 24 TS boosters. Not bad for 3 euros. The winner is a 16 year old kid with the aggro/Loam deck. The tournament was supposed to start at 4 PM, it was late, and in the end, it ended at 3 AM! From 70 tables at the beginning, there were only 30 left at the last round. A lot of people dropped, due to late hour, no more public transportation, bad results, etc.
I am not sure of the Top 8, but it should be something like:
1)Loam/ Geddon 2)Faerie stompy (me) 3)Gob MonoR 4)? 5)Burn 6)Faerie Stompy (Mr Trashtalking), 7) and 8) I don’t remember. Maybe a 43 Lands, as I believe one was at 5 – 1 – 1 near the end.
There were 6 people playing Faerie Stompy, with quite different decks, but the biggest differences were in the sb. Many people were playing Gob, I just (sadly) avoided them all day long. There were a couple Solidarity (deck totally missing from the French meta), and at least 3 “43 Lands” deck.
I am of course not claiming my build is the best, but I am very satisfied by it. That is to say playing 18 lands (including 9 basics), 8 equipements MD, no psionnics,3 proRed creatures MD. I only wish I could fit a 4th Winter Orb in the sb, as U/W Landstill (and more generally speaking control decks) is the only unfavourable MU, and the Orbs wreck them.
Voila.
Good report and congratulations on the finish.
A few questions.
1) What was your sideboard plan against Threshold?
2) In testing, how effective is Winter Orb at improving the Board Control matchup? I have never used it so I would like to know your experience.
3) After playing this tournament, are there any changes that you would make to your decklist?
Interesting, great performance. Too bad you didn't play Top 8 out, it looked like you had a nice chance at winning the whole thing, seeing that Loam can't play Loam against you, which tends to be a problem for them, and all the other MUs aren't too bad either. The only problem I have with your build is the low blue-count. It seems like that high artifact- and land-count would hurt your pitching business.
I still personally prefer MDd blasts, at least 2, but I can totally see the allure of playing none. Helps against all the randomness all the while speeding up clock.
On another note, thanks for lighting up the Top 8 a bit, I had been wondering what else was present for quite a while after I heard the Loam-whatever deck had won.
Sweet tourney report. Nice deck. a couple of comments...It was cool to see a lot of farie stompy..usually there are only a couple...another thing Ive noticed over time...Man, that european meta is really wierd/screwy. Don't get me wrong, I mean, there are LOTS of good decks in the tourneys but it is wierd to see Burn in the top 8! also, there's a lot of w/u landstill which isn't a bad deck, but doesn't get a lot of play in the U.S. (uwbg landstill is probably a little better) and I noticed that some of the U/G/R thresh decks run Burning-tree shaman and 8 fetch lands!...last but not least, what did your sideboard look like? Was 8 equiptment ever too much? it seems like a LOT. but then again, most fs decks run 7 I think and thats only 1 difference. maybe its just me. good job and sweet stuff. do you know where to find the other deck lists?
Congrats on the finish! How was it running 4 Jittes? We all know how great they are, but having 4 seems like it would cause you to draw 2 a lot. Were you glad you ran 4?
Kronicler
Wow, great report Yamaelle and even better finish! I don't think there's ever been a tourney where the FS mirror was played twice and the deck never faced Gobs lol. Only thing I really found odd about the build was the Control Magic being the only UU casting cost in the deck. Do you hate Binding Grasp that much?
Otherwise the build looks very streamlined. Little draw and no removal. Congrats again on the great finish. Some would have said that this deck is too inconsistent to make it though such a large field and not only did it make it, it's only lost was in the mirror!
I've played lately with the fourth Jitte too and I have to say that I love to draw it, anyway if we draw more than one, with tombs, efreet and opponent I think that the life gain is crucial. Jitte is our only life gain and removal (if you don't play blast) spell of the deck.
Another point is that comment about playing drake with only 1 land, I didn't know it!
About the Binding grasp, I have to say that I don't like them, have to pay U each turn is troublesome.
Finally congrats for the result and for the report.
Wow, lot’s of comments. Thank you every one for the reactions and congratulations. It was quite pleasant to read all that this morning while waking up. Anyway, I’ll try to answer all the questions:
@jamest : 1) My sb plan vs Threshold is the following : -1 Jitte, -1 Weatherseed, -1 Pithing Needle, +1 Explosives, +2 Tormod’s Crypt. If the guy is playing R splash and too many blasts, I might add 1 Weatherseed for a Sea Drake, but it seldom happens. I never lost a match to Threshold in the 5 tournaments I did since I came back to Europe.
2) Winter Orb is AMAZING. Really. Against almost all control decks (Landstill, Rifter, …) all you need is put some early pressure on them, both players losing some cards (swords, counters, wrath …), your opponent getting more or less tapped out with 5 or 6 lands on board. If you manage to sneak a Winter Orb at that moment, it is game very often. I don’t really like to start a game with it, Tomb+Orb, go, but I guess it might work too. Seriously, if you don’t play orbs, how do you ever win versus Control?
3) No real changes come to mind. I would like to fit a 4th orb in sb, but I am not too solid on cutting 1 ProRed, or 1 Crypt (has to be one of these). I have been quite happy with the rest.
@Eldariel : I wished there had been a Top 8 too. As for me winning the event, I would have sure loved it, but the G/W Terravore/Geddon deck also plays 4 Solitary Confinement, which is bad news for my deck. He won vs the Faerie stompy player who beat me (Trashtalking guy). Who knows?
As for the pitch business, it is true that since I upgraded the land count to 18 (which I think is a must), and the artifacts with 8 equipments, I do have a lower blue-count than probably all of you. Honestly, though the ratio is a little weak, it has not turned to be too much of a problem. That is to say, you play your forces for something really important, and seldom your moxes past the first few turns. Maybe I got lucky for that.
As for the blast, I know they provide removal, reach and “out combat” damage. That is to say, on paper it looks great. But the deck burns itself really fast enough (tomb+forces+Serendib), and I am much more happy to play a 4th Jitte and 4th Mage in those spots.
@lukatron2 : Most FS lists do run 7 equipments + 2-3 Blasts. I’d rather play a 4th Jitte, more proRed, the 4th Mage instead. It is not a heavy difference, between 7 or 8, but I cannot count the number of times Jitte saves me. Now, quite a few decks play it, and most opponents will try to get rid of it as possible. 1st turn duress, when I don’t have chalice in hand usually goes for Jitte, etc. I’d rather have one useless in hand, and win with the other, than waiting to draw one, and lose all my creatures to lack of equipments. Furthermore, this deck burns itself fast enough, not to run some more life gaining.
I am sorry; I have no idea where you could get the other lists. Reading your comments, I suppose you were there. What have you played then?
@Kronicler: Although I more or less answered your question about Jitte above, yes I am very glad to run 4. The thing is this deck is an agro deck, in an agro format. Though I am not interested in playing Type 2, look what happened the whole Kamigawa season: everyone was packing 4 Jittes, and the 1st one to use it would usually win the war. It is more or less the same thing here, except, that the format is faster, and you might be the fastest deck in this format to play fattie+equipped equipment+attack. So I can see no reasons not to do it.
@Mikekelley : I agree on that one. I must confess I was very surprised to see so many people played FS and almost all of them in the upper tables, hence the 2 mirrors.
@Phantom : It’s not that I don’t like Grasps, I tried with it, and thought the upkeep cost was quite annoying. Then, since I upgraded the blue land count (14 blue sources moxes included + 4 Trinket Mages), AND had some beta control magic left, I thought I could give it a try. Good chances that you don’t need to cast it turn 1 or 2, but a little after. In that case, in theory at least, you’re supposed to be able to pay UU. Truth is I always had the UU in tournament when I needed to cast it. So I’ll stick to it, knowing that there might be one day, one tournament where I’ll regret the second U…
Little draw indeed. I used to play with 4 Thirst for Knowledge and enjoy it. But I had to make some cuts, and went down to 3, then 2. I still have the 4 Swords for draw. And 8 euipements+3 Control Magic post SB is enough removal to me, as long as not too many problue fatties start to appear. I know it might seemed inconsistent, and I did mulliganed a few times, but less than expected (maybe 2 or 3 times in the whole thing), and as you said, the results come to back the deck.
@Al-urcard : I believe we have the same vision for the reason of the 4 Jittes ( and missing Grasps). I am just a little surprised you didn’t know the ruling for Sea Drake with 1 land in play. Have you been playing the deck in tournament?
[QUOTE=Yamaelle;100611]Wow, lot’s of comments. Thank you every one for the reactions and congratulations. It was quite pleasant to read all that this morning while waking up. Anyway, I’ll try to answer all the questions:
@jamest : 1) My sb plan vs Threshold is the following : -1 Jitte, -1 Weatherseed, -1 Pithing Needle, +1 Explosives, +2 Tormod’s Crypt. If the guy is playing R splash and too many blasts, I might add 1 Weatherseed for a Sea Drake, but it seldom happens. I never lost a match to Threshold in the 5 tournaments I did since I came back to Europe.
2) Winter Orb is AMAZING. Really. Against almost all control decks (Landstill, Rifter, …) all you need is put some early pressure on them, both players losing some cards (swords, counters, wrath …), your opponent getting more or less tapped out with 5 or 6 lands on board. If you manage to sneak a Winter Orb at that moment, it is game very often. I don’t really like to start a game with it, Tomb+Orb, go, but I guess it might work too. Seriously, if you don’t play orbs, how do you ever win versus Control?
3) No real changes come to mind. I would like to fit a 4th orb in sb, but I am not too solid on cutting 1 ProRed, or 1 Crypt (has to be one of these). I have been quite happy with the rest.
This 'Thrastalking guy' doesn't sound like the most competent pilot ever. The GW Terravore/Geddon list can't really survive a Chalice at 2, since they don't run Squee so they can't upkeep Confinement without Life. Also, post-SB Tormod's Crypts are horribly effective against the deck. The only card I'd really fear from them are the sideboarded Null Rods. But yea, while the MU should favour you, it's of course not a weak deck and they have very real chances of winning it all. You'll need to save a Force to Confinement if they have Genesis.
That's funny, considering that I used to play 4 Jittes in the way old builds, but dropped to 3 rather long ago to fit more spells in.
I do. The 1U upkeep is just awful. If I'm gonna play a steal spell, it would be Control Magic too. But, I also recommend playing 14-15 blue mana sources plus 4 Trinket Mages so double blue isn't quite so difficult.Only thing I really found odd about the build was the Control Magic being the only UU casting cost in the deck. Do you hate Binding Grasp that much?
I've played against this deck a few times on MWS. Its feels about 50/50. Chalice for 2 is key, but Chalice for 1 is pretty important as well since they run 4 Swords to Plowshares with 4 Eternal Witness.The GW Terravore/Geddon list can't really survive a Chalice at 2, since they don't run Squee so they can't upkeep Confinement without Life. Also, post-SB Tormod's Crypts are horribly effective against the deck. The only card I'd really fear from them are the sideboarded Null Rods. But yea, while the MU should favour you, it's of course not a weak deck and they have very real chances of winning it all. You'll need to save a Force to Confinement if they have Genesis.
My FS build is similar to yours (4 cards different) and in my testing, the Threshold matchup preboard is like 50/50. Maindeck Needle often shuts off our equipment. The matchup comes down to whether we can resolve a Chalice, because otherwise, their deck outclasses ours. And they have a lot of ways to stop Chalice.I never lost a match to Threshold in the 5 tournaments I did since I came back to Europe.
@Eldariel: I agree for the relative absence of competency of Mr Trashtalking. But as jamest said, it is more a 50 -50 MU I believe. It’s true that chalice=2 hurts them, but we also need chalice=1. If a 10/10 trample Terravore hits early the board, we can only hope we drew and sideboarded Control Magic/Grasps. Armageddon is not that threatening, but Solitary Confinement is. I am not sure Tormod is that efficient once it hits the table. All in all, I played little against this deck, and the guy was VERY competent for the matter, so dodging him was rather fine to me. As a result, only 2nd place.
I know you used to play 4 Jittes, and then only 3. I therefore started playing with 3 myself in May when I discovered the deck. Same for the blasts. But really, I feel 8 equipments are needed. I know the ratio 19 creatures/8 equipments does not seem very healthy, but it seems to work, doesn’t it? I cannot think of any card I wished to draw instead of a Jitte during games.
@jamest : May I ask what your list is ? You said there were only 4 cards difference, but I’d like to see it if possible.
As or the Threshold MU, for me it is rather 70 – 30 than 50 -50. Even preboard, at least versus the R splash. The W splash is seldom seen here, and it seems there is a general agreement the R splash is supposed to be more efficient than the W splash. That is why I even considered dropping a SB Crypt, since I somehow manage to never lose versus this deck. I believe the 4 Trinket Mage, and the SB Explosives help.
But for me, Goblin is the 50 – 50 MU, with a huge bonus to the one winning the toss. Especially if they pack MD Pyrokenesis as many Gob players sadly start doing around here.
Nah, you hardly need a Chalice at 1, while their 1-caster spells can be relevant, they aren't that scary with their 2-drops taken out of business. And Tormod's Crypt is awesome, I can't count the number of Terravores I've killed with a single Tormod's Crypt activation, especially if I prevent Armageddons from resolving (although they can't really use Arma either with Loam out of the game, which is why Chalice at 2 is so potent, unless of course they feel like they can win the race).
// Creatures@jamest : May I ask what your list is ? You said there were only 4 cards difference, but I’d like to see it if possible.
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Sea Drake
4 Weatherseed Faeries
4 Trinket Mage
4 Cloud of Faeries
1 Quicksilver Dragon
// Spells
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Force of Will
// Mana
3 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
// Sideboard
4 Pithing Needle
3 Powder Keg
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
6 ...
The last six sideboard spots are undecided for me. Misdirection is always solid. I'm trying to find something strong against Landstill/Control type decks. Everyone seems to recommend Winter Orb, but I still need to test this.
I was referring to Threshold with white splash so that could explain our different assessments. With white, Threshold can cast Meddling Mage naming Chalice which is quite effective for them. And Swords to Plowshares is much stronger than burn against us. They also have access to Mystic Enforcer and Serenity.As or the Threshold MU, for me it is rather 70 – 30 than 50 -50. Even preboard, at least versus the R splash. The W splash is seldom seen here, and it seems there is a general agreement the R splash is supposed to be more efficient than the W splash. That is why I even considered dropping a SB Crypt, since I somehow manage to never lose versus this deck. I believe the 4 Trinket Mage, and the SB Explosives help.
I agree. But, keep in mind, Goblins has never really metagamed against Faerie Stompy, so this matchup could get worse.But for me, Goblin is the 50 – 50 MU, with a huge bonus to the one winning the toss. Especially if they pack MD Pyrokenesis as many Gob players sadly start doing around here.
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